Highly Notorious Monsters

[Peptaru]

The HNM drops like ridill and black belt were coveted by people who didn't even need them. I used to camp that stuff, too. How many people, though, who would make an effort to show up with their shell, did make an honest effort to try to claim, had at least enough skill to kill the mob (even if it didn't look good to spectators), would have danced for joy to finally get an item that they've been chasing for years.... and never got a single shot at killing something. A system where everyone who makes the effort ends up getting rewarded would be acceptable to most, I'd guess. No, I can't speak for everyone, but I would think that'd be acceptable no?

There were LS's that showed up to HNMs daily and rarely, if ever, got claim over other groups. Was Group A making less of an effort than Group B? Nope! One just botted, or claimed faster due to delay or so on. Group A loses claim to Group B 150 times in one year, Group B has tons of items from this particular NM now and still camps it cuz not ALL of their members have what they want, though most have at least some stuff. Group A who is also there every day, has nothing... Is all their effort meaningless?

Yes, competition is fine, but imbalances like this can't exist without animosity, even so far as hatred, for the Group B groups that Group A is going to run into. "They should learn to claim better" as I'm sure someone will be thinking is just an assanine statement imho, because its alot of the same people who say "we get stuff cuz we make the effort".... they made the effort too and got nothing. I just don't want to see the community spiraling down in such glaring ways when it can be avoided.

TL;DR? TTB go read it!

[ThePatriarch]

The HNM drops like ridill and black belt were coveted by people who didn't even need them. I used to camp that stuff, too. How many people, though, who would make an effort to show up with their shell, did make an honest effort to try to claim, had at least enough skill to kill the mob (even if it didn't look good to spectators), would have danced for joy to finally get an item that they've been chasing for years.... and never got a single shot at killing something. A system where everyone who makes the effort ends up getting rewarded would be acceptable to most, I'd guess. No, I can't speak for everyone, but I would think that'd be acceptable no?

There were LS's that showed up to HNMs daily and rarely, if ever, got claim over other groups. Was Group A making less of an effort than Group B? Nope! One just botted, or claimed faster due to delay or so on. Group A loses claim to Group B 150 times in one year, Group B has tons of items from this particular NM now and still camps it cuz not ALL of their members have what they want, though most have at least some stuff. Group A who is also there every day, has nothing... Is all their effort meaningless?

Yes, competition is fine, but imbalances like this can't exist without animosity, even so far as hatred, for the Group B groups that Group A is going to run into. "They should learn to claim better" as I'm sure someone will be thinking is just an assanine statement imho, because its alot of the same people who say "we get stuff cuz we make the effort".... they made the effort too and got nothing. I just don't want to see the community spiraling down in such glaring ways when it can be avoided.

TL;DR? TTB go read it!

My linkshell rewarded members based upon their participation in all events. The more you assisted the linkshell, the more points you got, the more gear you obtained.

The more you put in, the more you get. That's life.

With competition comes animosity, you are correct. If you want a video game without feuds, I don't know what to tell you. We could possibly work on an MMO called HappyVille....

There are going to be elitist jerks even if FFXIV only has instanced content. I think, at the very least just off the interest in this thread alone, that HNM's would be a good addition to the game.

And we know the following:

No one wants to camp (Lets make a single window, and several pops per day so that one time zone can;t monopolize)

Enhance the Spawn Zone (Make botting worthless)

Great Drops (To match instanced drops/crafted items)

But I'd like to go further than just our free roaming HNM's that we want so badly. Lets even the playing grounds. How about some force pop HNM/NM's?

How about some Shikigami weapon type NM's? (unique spawn)

As much as I/many others want HNM's lets discuss further ways to make HNM's fall under more than one category.

[Firon]

My linkshell rewarded members based upon their participation in all events. The more you assisted the linkshell, the more points you got, the more gear you obtained.

The more you put in, the more you get. That's life.

With competition comes animosity, you are correct. If you want a video game without feuds, I don't know what to tell you. We could possibly work on an MMO called HappyVille....

There are going to be elitist jerks even if FFXIV only has instanced content. I think, at the very least just off the interest in this thread alone, that HNM's would be a good addition to the game.

And we know the following:

No one wants to camp (Lets make a single window, and several pops per day so that one time zone can;t monopolize)

Enhance the Spawn Zone (Make botting worthless)

Great Drops (To match instanced drops/crafted items)

But I'd like to go further than just our free roaming HNM's that we want so badly. Lets even the playing grounds. How about some force pop HNM/NM's?

How about some Shikigami weapon type NM's? (unique spawn)

As much as I/many others want HNM's lets discuss further ways to make HNM's fall under more than one category.

I agree with you i used ps2 in xi 90% of the time and i would claim mobs all the time and i got called botter and all of the above had to talk to multi gm's cause ppl like peptaru always jumped the gun that someone was a bot when they did not get claim.

[Peptaru]

I agree with you i used ps2 in xi 90% of the time and i would claim mobs all the time and i got called botter and all of the above had to talk to multi gm's cause ppl like peptaru always jumped the gun that someone was a bot when they did not get claim.

I never reported anyone for being a botter, even the people who admitted to botting. I never whined cuz I didn't get claim. Is everyone so callous to people who couldn't claim, though? I'm as much an asshole as the next guy, but even I have some empathy in this situation.

If people camp every day they make just as much effort as the people who camp every day and actually get claim, this is just the campers, this doesn't even involve the casuals in this equation. Campers putting in the same effort are rewarded differently. <~ (that's the patriarch post above you Firon)

[ThePatriarch]

I never reported anyone for being a botter, even the people who admitted to botting. I never whined cuz I didn't get claim. Is everyone so callous to people who couldn't claim, though? I'm as much an asshole as the next guy, but even I have some empathy in this situation.

If people camp every day they make just as much effort as the people who camp every day and actually get claim, this is just the campers, this doesn't even involve the casuals in this equation. Campers putting in the same effort are rewarded differently. <~ (that's the patriarch post above you Firon)

Risk/Reward.

I like knowing that nothing is for sure. It creates excitement, and a wonderful feeling of accomplishment when you finally obtain that elusive item from x-hnm.

And I gave points for camping, assuming you were verified to be awake, even if we didn't claim. But this is something I don't want to have to do in FFXIV because I hope to have HNM's with tiny windows!

[ArnoMorley]

The HNM drops like ridill and black belt were coveted by people who didn't even need them. I used to camp that stuff, too. How many people, though, who would make an effort to show up with their shell, did make an honest effort to try to claim, had at least enough skill to kill the mob (even if it didn't look good to spectators), would have danced for joy to finally get an item that they've been chasing for years.... and never got a single shot at killing something. A system where everyone who makes the effort ends up getting rewarded would be acceptable to most, I'd guess. No, I can't speak for everyone, but I would think that'd be acceptable no?

There were LS's that showed up to HNMs daily and rarely, if ever, got claim over other groups. Was Group A making less of an effort than Group B? Nope! One just botted, or claimed faster due to delay or so on. Group A loses claim to Group B 150 times in one year, Group B has tons of items from this particular NM now and still camps it cuz not ALL of their members have what they want, though most have at least some stuff. Group A who is also there every day, has nothing... Is all their effort meaningless?

Yes, competition is fine, but imbalances like this can't exist without animosity, even so far as hatred, for the Group B groups that Group A is going to run into. "They should learn to claim better" as I'm sure someone will be thinking is just an assanine statement imho, because its alot of the same people who say "we get stuff cuz we make the effort".... they made the effort too and got nothing. I just don't want to see the community spiraling down in such glaring ways when it can be avoided.

TL;DR? TTB go read it!

You're greatly exaggerating the flaws of the system. And so what if you never got something, I never got a relic weapon doesn't mean I wish they hadn't existed. It was always something to strive for though.

I mean so what if you never get one of those top items, but if you do get one then you can't put a price on the pride in having it. If everybody else has one to there's no point in having it. Who would drive a Lamborghini if everybody else had one? Would having one feel the same? No

Luck based / Competition based systems were good for XI. If you didn't like them you still had other things to do...

So what if it brings a little drama, FFXIV's only drama is about how much a let down it's been. I'd rather fight with other groups over hnms and gear than to not have anything worth fighting about. May complain about how it brings out of the worst of people's nature, at least it brought people out...

[Peptaru]

If everybody else has one to there's no point in having it. Who would drive a Lamborghini if everybody else had one? Would having one feel the same? No.

Yes, I would still drive one. It should feel the same, you should drive one because you like fast and sporty machines that are designed for speed and power. You shouldn't drive one cuz it makes you feel superior. Protip: it doesn't make you superior.

As for greatly exaggerating the issues of XI, I'm really not. It was a nightmare when the game was in its prime and even up until it started dying off. Relics could be accomplished with hard work and dedication (btw, relics were from instances) but if you can't outclaim someone, be they real or bot, no amount of hardwork will get you those items.

Why do you want to fight? If you can hang out in a place that's supposed to be enjoyable without fighting.... wait... Do you want to fight over things cuz you enjoy fighting?

[Elexia]

The HNM drops like ridill and black belt were coveted by people who didn't even need them.

...What monk didn't need a black belt back in the day?

[Alerith]

...What monk didn't need a black belt back in the day?

I think he refers to people who didn't have MNK leveled but wanted the BB anyways for "when they got around to leveling it."

The idea being that if they didn't get it now, they may not be able to when they hit 75.