Highly Notorious Monsters

[ThePatriarch]

I don't believe that casual players should have everything that players who put more effort into the game have. However, the real problem is when a good item is designated by the players as absolutely must have. Then no longer can casuals say whatever, they have to go get it or they can't even play when they log in because groups will turn their noses up at them.

When you make a piece of gear so good compared to everything else, players tend to call everything else gimp. You MUST have the best item even if it's only a couple stat points better. That's really where the problem starts. But if the drop isn't that good then what's the point of farming the NM? So you have two bad situations and depending on where you sit in the discussion one may not may not matter to you. To me, it is better to not allow this kind of gear to drop in the first place than to create a situation where the majority of players are inconvenienced or even outright denied the enjoyment of the game because of the introduction of the alpha item.

I think NMs are fun and I want to see lots more in the game. Especially if they are unique and challenging. But, I think they should not drop great gear. Trophies, achieves, things to put in your house, and stuff of that nature? Great. Let's have that.

So you want HNM's to drop novelty items to decorate our houses with? I'm sorry but that sounds ridiculous.

Lets introduce HNMs but give them trophies to say that we beat them and be done with them. That way we can get back to doing nothing... I must disagree on this as well. HNMs (imo) should drop great items, possibly some money drops too.

That would also take the excitement, thrill, and the majority of fun away from gathering at camp, getting claim and killing it.

HNM's need Great Weapon/Armor/etc drops. Not just trinkets to say we've beaten it. I think titles did a great job at that.

So not only do I have a Ridill equipped, but my title is Fafnir Slayer. That is alot cooler than a tree in my mog house.

If you extend the pop area you'll have the speed hackers winnin claim, and bot or no there's going to be mpk unless they alter the current system or severely limit where the mobs appear at. With the way XIV is set up I personally take no issue with HNMs being treated like leve mobs. Sorry spectators, it is someone else's mob. you can look, but don't touch. Make them hard, make them strategic, make them something that hacks/bots/mpk/assanine behavior can't interfere with. Inviting that element into a game that doesn't have to put up with it now seems very dangerous.

This defeats the purpose of having Open-World HNMs. We don't want them to be instanced.

[ArnoMorley]

If you extend the pop area you'll have the speed hackers winnin claim, and bot or no there's going to be mpk unless they alter the current system or severely limit where the mobs appear at. With the way XIV is set up I personally take no issue with HNMs being treated like leve mobs. Sorry spectators, it is someone else's mob. you can look, but don't touch. Make them hard, make them strategic, make them something that hacks/bots/mpk/assanine behavior can't interfere with. Inviting that element into a game that doesn't have to put up with it now seems very dangerous.

Edit: I see people talkin about a need/greed system, but everyone just clicks need anyway if they want something. i don't believe it would help in this particular subject.

You seem to forget that hackers and botters get banned. Especially speed hackers, you know how easy it is to detect speed hacking? And even if the game was littered with them, so what? It would still be a much better system than we have in place.

What the casual gamers ask for is essentially the same as somebody on welfare wanting a big house and a Ferrari. Not everybody else's fault if you can't contribute enough to society to earn them, on what planet do you think you're entitled to the same stuff as somebody who is willing to go earn them?

I also say lmao at the idea of HNMs just dropping trophies. Here's a better idea, how about instanced dungeons dropping trophies? The casual gamers are all casual anyway, what do they need good stuff for? Hard core gamers seem to the be the only ones actually willing to do shit that involves breaking a sweat, so I think we're the ones that need good gear.

[Peptaru]

I think titles fall under "stuff of that nature" Patriarch. I like people who are in it for the thrill of the hunt, I don't enjoy the company of people who just want uber drops to lord it over people who haven't gotten it yet. You can do that with new gear pieces from instances without changing the system. If HNM are implemented I pray they can be camped for fun, for bragging rights, not brought back for "Uber drop are belong to me and my LS, u gtfo!" type play.

If you introdue HNM with super drops, you'll still go back to doing nothing when you have those drops... how's that different from trophies? As for money drops, that just gets an "lol" because gil is far from relevant or hard to come by in XIV.

Edit: Arno you always post things in a terrible way that you seem to be proud of. You're just a troll who thinks he's hot stuff. You're not the best player ever made, and hardcore gamers/elite gamers don't talk like you do. I think people with low self-esteem who need validation that they're awesome, like they -think- they are, post like you do. Credit to people who support the old HNM ideas but can post like adults. You, however, are everything that makes "casual" players view the "hardcores" as just jerks.

[ThePatriarch]

I think titles fall under "stuff of that nature" Patriarch. I like people who are in it for the thrill of the hunt, I don't enjoy the company of people who just want uber drops to lord it over people who haven't gotten it yet. You can do that with new gear pieces from instances without changing the system. If HNM are implemented I pray they can be camped for fun, for bragging rights, not brought back for "Uber drop are belong to me and my LS, u gtfo!" type play.

If you introdue HNM with super drops, you'll still go back to doing nothing when you have those drops... how's that different from trophies? As for money drops, that just gets an "lol" because gil is far from relevant or hard to come by in XIV.

Alright, I can see where you are coming from. Lets level here.

Alot of the super drops from FFXI weren't trophies, they all had many, many uses. I'm going to make a short list.

Ebody
Abody
Defending Ring
Nlegs
Ridill (had great uses, and it was fun to play with!)
Kirin's Osode
Hauteclaire
Black Belt (from multiple HNM's)

These weren't Trophy Items. They were such great bonuses to many good people. And my list contains 8 items out of hundreds.

And when you refer to "going back to doing nothing after you get those drops", if the system implemented is anything remotely near that of FFXI's, you won't obtain all of those items within a year, most likely 2. You always have something to look forward to.

And just because some people have alot of gil saved up (I'm guilty) is no logical reason to not give NM's valuable drops. That's like saying "everyone in america has a car, lets stop building cars"

[Peptaru]

The HNM drops like ridill and black belt were coveted by people who didn't even need them. I used to camp that stuff, too. How many people, though, who would make an effort to show up with their shell, did make an honest effort to try to claim, had at least enough skill to kill the mob (even if it didn't look good to spectators), would have danced for joy to finally get an item that they've been chasing for years.... and never got a single shot at killing something. A system where everyone who makes the effort ends up getting rewarded would be acceptable to most, I'd guess. No, I can't speak for everyone, but I would think that'd be acceptable no?

There were LS's that showed up to HNMs daily and rarely, if ever, got claim over other groups. Was Group A making less of an effort than Group B? Nope! One just botted, or claimed faster due to delay or so on. Group A loses claim to Group B 150 times in one year, Group B has tons of items from this particular NM now and still camps it cuz not ALL of their members have what they want, though most have at least some stuff. Group A who is also there every day, has nothing... Is all their effort meaningless?

Yes, competition is fine, but imbalances like this can't exist without animosity, even so far as hatred, for the Group B groups that Group A is going to run into. "They should learn to claim better" as I'm sure someone will be thinking is just an assanine statement imho, because its alot of the same people who say "we get stuff cuz we make the effort".... they made the effort too and got nothing. I just don't want to see the community spiraling down in such glaring ways when it can be avoided.

TL;DR? TTB go read it!

[ThePatriarch]

The HNM drops like ridill and black belt were coveted by people who didn't even need them. I used to camp that stuff, too. How many people, though, who would make an effort to show up with their shell, did make an honest effort to try to claim, had at least enough skill to kill the mob (even if it didn't look good to spectators), would have danced for joy to finally get an item that they've been chasing for years.... and never got a single shot at killing something. A system where everyone who makes the effort ends up getting rewarded would be acceptable to most, I'd guess. No, I can't speak for everyone, but I would think that'd be acceptable no?

There were LS's that showed up to HNMs daily and rarely, if ever, got claim over other groups. Was Group A making less of an effort than Group B? Nope! One just botted, or claimed faster due to delay or so on. Group A loses claim to Group B 150 times in one year, Group B has tons of items from this particular NM now and still camps it cuz not ALL of their members have what they want, though most have at least some stuff. Group A who is also there every day, has nothing... Is all their effort meaningless?

Yes, competition is fine, but imbalances like this can't exist without animosity, even so far as hatred, for the Group B groups that Group A is going to run into. "They should learn to claim better" as I'm sure someone will be thinking is just an assanine statement imho, because its alot of the same people who say "we get stuff cuz we make the effort".... they made the effort too and got nothing. I just don't want to see the community spiraling down in such glaring ways when it can be avoided.

TL;DR? TTB go read it!

My linkshell rewarded members based upon their participation in all events. The more you assisted the linkshell, the more points you got, the more gear you obtained.

The more you put in, the more you get. That's life.

With competition comes animosity, you are correct. If you want a video game without feuds, I don't know what to tell you. We could possibly work on an MMO called HappyVille....

There are going to be elitist jerks even if FFXIV only has instanced content. I think, at the very least just off the interest in this thread alone, that HNM's would be a good addition to the game.

And we know the following:

No one wants to camp (Lets make a single window, and several pops per day so that one time zone can;t monopolize)

Enhance the Spawn Zone (Make botting worthless)

Great Drops (To match instanced drops/crafted items)

But I'd like to go further than just our free roaming HNM's that we want so badly. Lets even the playing grounds. How about some force pop HNM/NM's?

How about some Shikigami weapon type NM's? (unique spawn)

As much as I/many others want HNM's lets discuss further ways to make HNM's fall under more than one category.

[ArnoMorley]

The HNM drops like ridill and black belt were coveted by people who didn't even need them. I used to camp that stuff, too. How many people, though, who would make an effort to show up with their shell, did make an honest effort to try to claim, had at least enough skill to kill the mob (even if it didn't look good to spectators), would have danced for joy to finally get an item that they've been chasing for years.... and never got a single shot at killing something. A system where everyone who makes the effort ends up getting rewarded would be acceptable to most, I'd guess. No, I can't speak for everyone, but I would think that'd be acceptable no?

There were LS's that showed up to HNMs daily and rarely, if ever, got claim over other groups. Was Group A making less of an effort than Group B? Nope! One just botted, or claimed faster due to delay or so on. Group A loses claim to Group B 150 times in one year, Group B has tons of items from this particular NM now and still camps it cuz not ALL of their members have what they want, though most have at least some stuff. Group A who is also there every day, has nothing... Is all their effort meaningless?

Yes, competition is fine, but imbalances like this can't exist without animosity, even so far as hatred, for the Group B groups that Group A is going to run into. "They should learn to claim better" as I'm sure someone will be thinking is just an assanine statement imho, because its alot of the same people who say "we get stuff cuz we make the effort".... they made the effort too and got nothing. I just don't want to see the community spiraling down in such glaring ways when it can be avoided.

TL;DR? TTB go read it!

You're greatly exaggerating the flaws of the system. And so what if you never got something, I never got a relic weapon doesn't mean I wish they hadn't existed. It was always something to strive for though.

I mean so what if you never get one of those top items, but if you do get one then you can't put a price on the pride in having it. If everybody else has one to there's no point in having it. Who would drive a Lamborghini if everybody else had one? Would having one feel the same? No

Luck based / Competition based systems were good for XI. If you didn't like them you still had other things to do...

So what if it brings a little drama, FFXIV's only drama is about how much a let down it's been. I'd rather fight with other groups over hnms and gear than to not have anything worth fighting about. May complain about how it brings out of the worst of people's nature, at least it brought people out...

[Peptaru]

Great drops to match instanced I think everyone is okay with, great drops that exceed instanced might be too far. Nothing compared to the Ebody/Abody/ for a long time, and even more persistent was the power of ridill or black belt.

Rewarding your own members based on participation is well and good, a great way to do things. The other shells make the effort, too. I don't see HNM shells passing claim to each other like "nah we got the last couple, you go ahead" lol. If mobs popped 4 or 5 times a day with higher than 1% drop rates I could totally get behind HNMs. If they're implemented in any way that allows for monopolization (of drops) and polarization (of players) I could in no way get behind it.

Yes, FFXIV has elitist jerks, but what are they elite about? There isn't hard content yet. ^^

Enhancing the spawn zone is good, but they gotta find a way to stop MPK if it spawns somewhere with upper level mobs. I'm totally open to any ideas folks have on this topic.

People who want useful items from HNM is one thing, I can appreciate that. HNM having end-all power items is likely a very bad idea.

Let's make HNM spawn like the updated despot from normal mobs!!! (this is the jokes) The HNMs will pop from star marmots just outside of town, but will pop claimed to whoever killed the marmot that he popped from!

[ThePatriarch]

To me, feel free to correct me if I am out of line, complaining about hardcore players obtaining items that a casual most likely will never equip, is almost like complaining about the Accomplished Man who drives a ferrari.

People who put in more, get more. in MMO's, people who play more, and kill more monsters/do more raids, are going to have more gear.

in shooters, the people who hone their skills, kill more people, and complete assignments are going to have more guns/attachments which will make them even better.

in real life, people who work more, make more money than people who work less (in most cases)

its a universal staple of life. Trying to dilute that simple idea and make it to where everyone can obtain the same gear is just watering down the game.

[Firon]

My linkshell rewarded members based upon their participation in all events. The more you assisted the linkshell, the more points you got, the more gear you obtained.

The more you put in, the more you get. That's life.

With competition comes animosity, you are correct. If you want a video game without feuds, I don't know what to tell you. We could possibly work on an MMO called HappyVille....

There are going to be elitist jerks even if FFXIV only has instanced content. I think, at the very least just off the interest in this thread alone, that HNM's would be a good addition to the game.

And we know the following:

No one wants to camp (Lets make a single window, and several pops per day so that one time zone can;t monopolize)

Enhance the Spawn Zone (Make botting worthless)

Great Drops (To match instanced drops/crafted items)

But I'd like to go further than just our free roaming HNM's that we want so badly. Lets even the playing grounds. How about some force pop HNM/NM's?

How about some Shikigami weapon type NM's? (unique spawn)

As much as I/many others want HNM's lets discuss further ways to make HNM's fall under more than one category.

I agree with you i used ps2 in xi 90% of the time and i would claim mobs all the time and i got called botter and all of the above had to talk to multi gm's cause ppl like peptaru always jumped the gun that someone was a bot when they did not get claim.