Highly Notorious Monsters

[Rydin]

Are athletes elitist jerks because they enjoy competing? Obviously not.

Obviously not?
HNMs.. no HNMs... at this point I don't even care....
I just want to know how professional athletes are OBVIOUSLY not jerks and assholes...
really?
I actually have a few friends in the NFL... and I'll be honest with you... their douchebags....
And you know what? the more competitive they are... the bigger douches they are....
Michael Jordan is maybe the worlds biggest douche... Im not even kidding...
Lebron James? Michael Vick?
really though?
Athlete =/= douche?

Edit: I'm going to give you a moment to retract that statement... Im barely even following this thread and I don't really know what your position is on this... but that has to hurt your argument... I can't even believe someone said that... I'm calling my buddy Bernard Pollard (Ravens DB) right now... I'm dead serious.... I'm calling him to tell him you said that

[Clydey]

Obviously not?
HNMs.. no HNMs... at this point I don't even care....
I just want to know how professional athletes are OBVIOUSLY not jerks and assholes...
really?
I actually have a few friends in the NFL... and I'll be honest with you... their douchebags....
And you know what? the more competitive they are... the bigger douches they are....
Michael Jordan is maybe the worlds biggest douche... Im not even kidding...
Lebron James? Michael Vick?
really though?
Athlete =/= douche?

Edit: I'm going to give you a moment to retract that statement... Im barely even following this thread and I don't really know what your position is on this... but that has to hurt your argument... I can't even believe someone said that... I'm calling my buddy Bernard Pollard (Ravens DB) right now... I'm dead serious.... I'm calling him to tell him you said that

You can give me as long as you like, but there's no retraction forthcoming.

You seem to think my post implies that there are no athletes who are jerks or elitists. I suggested nothing of the sort. Indeed, even if all athletes were elitist jerks, my point would still stand. The fact that an athlete is a dickhead has nothing to do with their desire to compete.

Thanks for interjecting with a total non sequitur.

[Rydin]

You can give me as long as you like, but there's no retraction forthcoming.

You seem to think my post implies that there are no athletes who are jerks or elitists. I suggested nothing of the sort. Indeed, even if all athletes were elitist jerks, my point would still stand. The fact that an athlete is a dickhead has nothing to do with their desire to compete.

Thanks for interjecting with a total non sequitur.

You're welcome sir... didn't mean to derail...
I just think there is a direct correlation between competitiveness and douchebagery

[Clydey]

You're welcome sir... didn't mean to derail...
I just think there is a direct correlation between competitiveness and douchebagery

That depends on how well one competes. I think what you are referring to is ego, not competitiveness. People who achieve high levels of success often develop a sizeable ego.

[Rydin]

That depends on how well one competes. I think what you are referring to is ego, not competitiveness. People who achieve high levels of success often develop a sizeable ego.

"often" or "always?"
and the size of the ego is directly relative to the level of success... which is partially determined by commitment level which is reliant upon competitiveness...
ergo.... Competitiveness leads to ego...

Anyway...
Lets make it black and white

Questions:

1. Open world NMs only? Instanced and item pop NMs only? Both?

2. Timed Spawns? None (Item and instanced pops only), short (5 minutes from ToD)? long (1 hour from ToD)? super long (24-72 hour spawn)? conditional (i.e. weather conditions)? mixture of all of these?

3. Rewards? Uber open world NM rewards? decent open world NM rewards? useless trophy rewards? Based on spawn conditions?

4. Open world Spawn area? One set spot? Random over several spots? random over an entire zone? Roaming?

5. Bonus question: Should people outside the claiming party be able to attack open world NMs?

How is that for returning to OP after a derail, Cly???

(BTW... i was just being a dick about the athlete thing... these forums could use a little off topic banter sometimes)

[Levian]

Questions:

1. Open world NMs only? Instanced and item pop NMs only? Both?

Both. I see no reason why they couldn't do both, since other games have inevitably wound up that way.

2. Timed Spawns? None (Item and instanced pops only), short (5 minutes from ToD)? long (1 hour from ToD)? super long (24-72 hour spawn)? conditional (i.e. weather conditions)? mixture of all of these?

I would think a variety would be best. Probably even more so if the reward was equivalent to the length of time it took to appear. There was a reason LoO had such rigorous pop conditions.

3. Rewards? Uber open world NM rewards? decent open world NM rewards? useless trophy rewards? Based on spawn conditions?

The more the merrier, I'm inclined to say base it on spawn conditions. But you should also base it on how difficult you made it comparative to other game content. If it takes an hour to whittle an open world NM down and 10 minutes to kill an instance boos, I think the rewards should reflect that. If the difficulty of defeating the two are equivalent, so should the quality of the reward.

4. Open world Spawn area? One set spot? Random over several spots? random over an entire zone? Roaming?

Again this is something that should vary. In context of the thread, I'm going to assume open world. Some could spawn in a pretty confined area, while others would have random spawn points. Same for the amount of roaming they do. It would make sense for a Wyrm to take flight and roam all over, a goblin king on the other hand may be more inclined to chill in his throne room.

5. Bonus question: Should people outside the claiming party be able to attack open world NMs?

Only if they add a call for help function, in which case you can receive outside help but loose the reward. I don't think that should be NM specific though, so there's that.

For the record, I was never an NM camper. I would lend a hand here or there if, for example, I was farming near SSG when Charybdis popped. But that was about the extent of my NM action.

[Rydin]

Both. I see no reason why they couldn't do both, since other games have inevitably wound up that way.



I would think a variety would be best. Probably even more so if the reward was equivalent to the length of time it took to appear. There was a reason LoO had such rigorous pop conditions.



The more the merrier, I'm inclined to say base it on spawn conditions. But you should also base it on how difficult you made it comparative to other game content. If it takes an hour to whittle an open world NM down and 10 minutes to kill an instance boos, I think the rewards should reflect that. If the difficulty of defeating the two are equivalent, so should the quality of the reward.



Again this is something that should vary. In context of the thread, I'm going to assume open world. Some could spawn in a pretty confined area, while others would have random spawn points. Same for the amount of roaming they do. It would make sense for a Wyrm to take flight and roam all over, a goblin king on the other hand may be more inclined to chill in his throne room.




Only if they add a call for help function, in which case you can receive outside help but loose the reward. I don't think that should be NM specific though, so there's that.

For the record, I was never an NM camper. I would lend a hand here or there if, for example, I was farming near SSG when Charybdis popped. But that was about the extent of my NM action.

Good points... Most people seem to feel this way... I don't know what all the arguing and disagreement is about
Its like congress... we all agree on core concepts and then we get all angry and up in arms over the details

[Abhayaa]

My answer for all of those questions is pretty much "all of the above".
Let's get as much variety to suit as many people as possible.

We can't afford "my way or no way" in the relaunch.

[ArnoMorley]

Both. I see no reason why they couldn't do both, since other games have inevitably wound up that way.



I would think a variety would be best. Probably even more so if the reward was equivalent to the length of time it took to appear. There was a reason LoO had such rigorous pop conditions.



The more the merrier, I'm inclined to say base it on spawn conditions. But you should also base it on how difficult you made it comparative to other game content. If it takes an hour to whittle an open world NM down and 10 minutes to kill an instance boos, I think the rewards should reflect that. If the difficulty of defeating the two are equivalent, so should the quality of the reward.



Again this is something that should vary. In context of the thread, I'm going to assume open world. Some could spawn in a pretty confined area, while others would have random spawn points. Same for the amount of roaming they do. It would make sense for a Wyrm to take flight and roam all over, a goblin king on the other hand may be more inclined to chill in his throne room.




Only if they add a call for help function, in which case you can receive outside help but loose the reward. I don't think that should be NM specific though, so there's that.

For the record, I was never an NM camper. I would lend a hand here or there if, for example, I was farming near SSG when Charybdis popped. But that was about the extent of my NM action.

Funny thing is, FFXI had ALL of these. A couple of NM haters seem to think like it had nothing but a bunch of broken claim wars. There were hundreds if not thousands of NMs in XI and they came in all different variety.

NM/HNMs were by FAR the most fun thing about FFXI. I just find it incredibly selfish that a couple of players who don't want to dedicate time to the game want to take it away from everybody. Once a day/week NMs that only one group gets should exist and did exist in XI but they were NEVER the only thing.


Casual players had bcnm and ksnm, then ToAU came along and they had assault/salvage/nyzul/znm and what not. Multitude of instanced content that rewarded gear that was on par with HNM/God gear. Was it all better? No but if you didn't like claim wars there was tons of instanced stuff you could do.

I think the ToAU era FFXI was the perfect hardcore/casual model that every mmo should follow, ToAU leveling was much faster than it had been before. Only took a month to get to 75 whereas CoP era leveling took half a year. But the casual gamers didn't stop there with the compromise, they always want to take more and more away until FFXI became a joke and XIV is starting out as one thanks to them.

[Yves]

Obviously not?
HNMs.. no HNMs... at this point I don't even care....
I just want to know how professional athletes are OBVIOUSLY not jerks and assholes...
really?
I actually have a few friends in the NFL... and I'll be honest with you... their douchebags....
And you know what? the more competitive they are... the bigger douches they are....
Michael Jordan is maybe the worlds biggest douche... Im not even kidding...
Lebron James? Michael Vick?
really though?
Athlete =/= douche?

Edit: I'm going to give you a moment to retract that statement... Im barely even following this thread and I don't really know what your position is on this... but that has to hurt your argument... I can't even believe someone said that... I'm calling my buddy Bernard Pollard (Ravens DB) right now... I'm dead serious.... I'm calling him to tell him you said that

You could also calculate the following: we have more exposure to those named athletes due to a heightened media. Also factor in that nobody covers the hundreds of hours of community service Drew Brees did for New Orleans. Thus, people prefer to watch athletes (or anyone famous) at their worst behavior because it brings them down to what we perceive to be a lower level than ourselves. This is why reality television is so big.

Also, remember that anyone can look like a jerk if portrayed in short snippets of only their worst moments. I could put together a media montage that makes Ghandi look like a total dick and one that does vice-versa.

You have friends in the NFL who are jerks. I have friends in mainstream MMA that I train with ("train" is a loose term meaning "I get beat up by") who are completely normal people who just so happen to possess extreme conviction and natural ability/physical parameters. I also know a couple who are jerks.

The point is that no one single group in society is solely one way. At the end of the day we are all humans (in good and bad moments) - we all possess the ability to be jerks in some instances and the complete opposite in others.