Highly Notorious Monsters

[ThePatriarch]

Except now the current claiming system makes it so first party to get hate or attack gets drop, also right now with the current system bots wont become prevalent until well after 2.0 Lets be honest the XI claim wars were all about the most sophisticated bot. No they need HNM that are not about claiming but are about the skill and challenge of defeating them.

HNM will only work if you can farm X and Y item turn them in for Z item and use Z item to pop NQ and A+B item from NQ drop to pop HQ

I have to disagree with the statement about bots in XI. I was a part of some very major HNM shells, and as a high pearlsack I never saw one bot in use in the LS.

I'm not saying bots were prevalent in XI, they might have been. But I personally have probably killed 200 Fafnirs/Nids, wining about 40% claim, with no bots.

Regardless of who claims, everyone would instantly do the "omg popped purple" "they use nasa" "obv bots", when truthfully its a DIA spam, and luck.

[Elkwood]

I have to disagree with the statement about bots in XI. I was a part of some very major HNM shells, and as a high pearlsack I never saw one bot in use in the LS.

I'm not saying bots were prevalent in XI, they might have been. But I personally have probably killed 200 Fafnirs/Nids, wining about 40% claim, with no bots.

Regardless of who claims, everyone would instantly do the "omg popped purple" "they use nasa" "obv bots", when truthfully its a DIA spam, and luck.

Yeah I call bullshit on that one, sorry sir your either lying or full of it. Just because you didn't see Bots does not mean they were not prevalent. I can guarantee you 90% of HNM shells that camped Faf/Nid Behme/KB and Ada/Aspi used bots. If I had the list of characters still i would post for you just the ones from FFXIapp the list comprised of nearly 60,000 accounts, that list does not include Xiclaim, Nasa, XIP, Arenz, Tauntunleashed, etc. Any LS that had a 50%+ claim rate I guarantee you had bots.

[ThePatriarch]

Yeah I call bullshit on that one, sorry sir your either lying or full of it. Just because you didn't see Bots does not mean they were not prevalent. I can guarantee you 90% of HNM shells that camped Faf/Nid Behme/KB and Ada/Aspi used bots. If I had the list of characters still i would post for you just the ones from FFXIapp the list comprised of nearly 60,000 accounts, that list does not include Xiclaim, Nasa, XIP, Arenz, Tauntunleashed, etc. Any LS that had a 50%+ claim rate I guarantee you had bots.

Gaurantees based on assumptions aren't really gaurantees now are they?

I don't want to argue about bots, or who could win claim. I want to discuss ways to implement an idea from XI that most of us loved.

You are correct in a sense though, I agree that claim methods need to be re-worked. BCNM type pop maybe? Thats why im asking you.

Although I do think there should be a couple/many free roaming HNM's as well.

[Elkwood]

Gaurantees based on assumptions aren't really gaurantees now are they?

I don't want to argue about bots, or who could win claim. I want to discuss ways to implement an idea from XI that most of us loved.

You are correct in a sense though, I agree that claim methods need to be re-worked. BCNM type pop maybe? Thats why im asking you.

Although I do think there should be a couple/many free roaming HNM's as well.

It needs to be an Uli type pop or the way XI does HNM now collect seals trade seals for Orb fight NM, get Item, fight HNM get item, fight HQ HNM

[Jinko]

I don't want to argue about bots, or who could win claim. I want to discuss ways to implement an idea from XI that most of us loved.

So you want to dismiss the most obvious problem with this idea ?

Then I guess its not worth discussing.

What's wrong with making public content, 3 top players get loot, it fosters healthy competition that anyone and everyone can be a part of.

Edit:- Just to be clear there would be gold, silver and bronze loot pools and the drop could be random, so not necessarily something uber awesome.

[ThePatriarch]

So you want to dismiss the most obvious problem with this idea ?

Then I guess its not worth discussing.

I concede, you are correct. Whilst I did not use them, nor have I ever seen one in use, I would not know where to begin on making a bot-proof system (if even possible). I know that with an open world system we would face that issue. It would be the giant elephant in the room any time a claim dispute arose.

BCNM pop HNM's are a good idea. However some of us love that good old fashioned XI style Nidhogg hunt. Your point however, is spot on and valid. I am all for finding a way to think up a system that bots would not be able to tarnish.

[Gukswar]

I outclaimed a lot of Bot's on my first Hnms lol

[Deathmask]

I have to disagree with the statement about bots in XI. I was a part of some very major HNM shells, and as a high pearlsack I never saw one bot in use in the LS.

I'm not saying bots were prevalent in XI, they might have been. But I personally have probably killed 200 Fafnirs/Nids, wining about 40% claim, with no bots.

Regardless of who claims, everyone would instantly do the "omg popped purple" "they use nasa" "obv bots", when truthfully its a DIA spam, and luck.

Yea, because you were the only one to claim all HNMs for your shell or you can swear that other mebers never used a bot. Of course you wouldn't say here that you used a bot but every single person that played the HNM game knew it was a matter of who had the best bot for claim.

Either that or lose 90% of claims. If you pretend otherwise you are just a liar and hoping to use your new bot to get those HNM again.

[ThePatriarch]

Yea, because you were the only one to claim all HNMs for your shell or you can swear that other mebers never used a bot. Of course you wouldn't say here that you used a bot but every single person that played the HNM game knew it was a matter of who had the best bot for claim.

Either that or lose 90% of claims. If you pretend otherwise you are just a liar and hoping to use your new bot to get those HNM again.

I clearly stated that we won about 40% of claim. Back in those days, alot of HNM's were not heavily camped due to the nature, i.e. Tiamat, Khimaira, etc. And even then, at camps with heavy competition, we were still under 50% claim.

Not sure why it is so hard for people to believe that not everyone used a bot. And this discussion was had almost 50 pages ago, good sir. Please feel free to read the following pages!

And even then, please read more on how we DO NOT want just normal window spawn HNM's like FFXI. Should they implement some? Why not? But we want more. We want a system that discourages botting, or atleast makes it so difficult that botting would be pointless.

Instanced HNM.

Wide spawn area HNM.

The list goes on and on... I know not everyone will read the majority of this thread, but there are some very good ideas listed by many users throughout the pages. I posted quite a few in my OP, including ways to may botting irrelevant

Rather than berate my ideas, and call me a liar, how about something constructive? We would get farther.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

I clearly stated that we won about 40% of claim. Back in those days, alot of HNM's were not heavily camped due to the nature, i.e. Tiamat, Khimaira, etc. And even then, at camps with heavy competition, we were still under 50% claim.

Not sure why it is so hard for people to believe that not everyone used a bot. And this discussion was had almost 50 pages ago, good sir. Please feel free to read the following pages!

And even then, please read more on how we DO NOT want just normal window spawn HNM's like FFXI. Should they implement some? Why not? But we want more. We want a system that discourages botting, or atleast makes it so difficult that botting would be pointless.

Instanced HNM.

Wide spawn area HNM.

The list goes on and on... I know not everyone will read the majority of this thread, but there are some very good ideas listed by many users throughout the pages. I posted quite a few in my OP, including ways to may botting irrelevant

Rather than berate my ideas, and call me a liar, how about something constructive? We would get farther.

I don't think the problem is how many claim you got at your times, the problem is HNM a-là FFXI are a real downer. Huge time frame and good drops bring the everlasting problem of claim bots. It isn't important if you used them or not, sooner or later somebody will use them. And usually after someone start using happens two thing :
1) mpk
2)after the 20 lost claim due bots, start botting on your own
3) give up camping

Believe it or not, in a forum of my country some idiot planned to buy claim bots because "japanese have huge advantage on claim and we can't let that happens, we need to claim". Do you know how he started planning ? Looking a fucking ARTWORK of a behemoth in 2.0 pdf. Retard guys at his finest, but if camping means dealing with people like this, istance. Istance forever, and good grief on open world nm