Highly Notorious Monsters

[Exn]

Depending on the amount of content that is provided at the time when and if these HNMs do happen is what will determine whether or not they are “End game content”. People need to open their eyes and see that there are more people who play this game than just them. If they just included which I really hope they do multiple different types of HNMs to appease everyone this would be great. But no matter what Square Enix does someone will complain and it's probably the people who wont be playing it a year later. So before you go and fill up the forums with selfish nonsense consider the people who dedicate themselves to Final Fantasy titles and their MMOs. Force pop HNMs are great, Timed ones are great, The open world events can be great if done right, and the weather factored ones can be awesome as well. People need to stop picking one side of this argument and just embrace all of them and this game can really be great. The more content that is available the better the game will be also if it is done correctly(that needs a thread by itself).

No matter how many times it's said, some players will simply never hear that we're just asking to include all types of HNM content suggested.. Some people are simply afraid of what they don't understand, while others are simply selfish in their mentality that it's ok to request to exclude popular content (obviously by the unnecessary length of this thread). In any event, the Dev's heard it, let them figure it out.

[Kryptic]

No matter how many times it's said, some players will simply never hear that we're just asking to include all types of HNM content suggested.. Some people are simply afraid of what they don't understand, while others are simply selfish in their mentality that it's ok to request to exclude popular content (obviously by the unnecessary length of this thread). In any event, the Dev's heard it, let them figure it out.

Call me optimistic but I really hope they see my posts, I feel they are really good and spot on for players of all levels of play. Whether you play an hour or 12 hours a day my posts make sense.

[Alhanelem]

I'm not suggesting to make HNMs a priority that everyone needs to do, the chances in FFXI were probably 10x worse than FFXI when it came to the super rare items like the defending ring, ridill etc. But when you finally got one of those it was the best feeling in the entire world. It took me over a year to get a dalmatica but when I finally got it, it was the best feeling ever, even though it was only a refresh piece. You can still edit the %s for drops on the HNMs but I don't want the best drop off of every kill, nor do I want to see one every other day.

I understand what you're trying to say, but why can't we get that "ooh, shiny!" through fun and well-thought-out content instead of spending hours standing around waiting for something to pop and roll a random number to see who gets the 1% chance at an item drop in the ensuing provoke/dia/claim cluster#&$%? You don't need any of that crap to have fun exciting, really hard battles that have a small chance to give you a rare drop and subsequent "best feeling in the world". world bosses don't have to use obnoxious spawn mechanics to achieve the things that you yourself desire. It can be made a less stressful experience for *everyone* while still giving the "ooh, shiny!" effect.

That's all I am asking, I don't care if it takes 10 tries to see a great piece of equipment.

Most people were lucky to get 1 try at that great piece of equipment, what with all the botting and cheating FFXI had at "traditional" HNMs. They can come up with a better content design such that everyone has a fair shot (by fair I mean equal, not fair as in "fair drop rate"), rather than the content being designed such that the number of people that have the rare item is determined by the difficulty, not the number of people with the patience to sit through boring hours of non-gameplay.

I don't remember who wrote it but someone said just make one big monster and let everyone kill it and whoever gets the drop gets it. How is that fun or challenging? You just send an infinite barrage of bodies at it until it dies. The point of HNMs more so the kings was so lay down a strategy to fight it.

1) The fate system does not automatically imply every battle will be a zombie or mass attack clusterbomb. Also, you're kidding yourself if you think most XI HNMs required much strategy- In most cases, there was just one strategy, and generally only one moment (low HP) that required any change in tactics.

I fail to see what's fun or challenging about standing at a pop spot for several hours then having a low-ping contest with dozens of other people to see who can press provoke first.

[Kryptic]

I understand what you're trying to say, but why can't we get that "ooh, shiny!" through fun and well-thought-out content instead of spending hours standing around waiting for something to pop and roll a random number to see who gets the 1% chance at an item drop in the ensuing provoke/dia/claim cluster#&$%? You don't need any of that crap to have fun exciting, really hard battles that have a small chance to give you a rare drop and subsequent "best feeling in the world". world bosses don't have to use obnoxious spawn mechanics to achieve the things that you yourself desire. It can be made a less stressful experience for *everyone* while still giving the "ooh, shiny!" effect.

Most people were lucky to get 1 try at that great piece of equipment, what with all the botting and cheating FFXI had at "traditional" HNMs. They can come up with a better content design such that everyone has a fair shot (by fair I mean equal, not fair as in "fair drop rate"), rather than the content being designed such that the number of people that have the rare item is determined by the difficulty, not the number of people with the patience to sit through boring hours of non-gameplay.

1) The fate system does not automatically imply every battle will be a zombie or mass attack clusterbomb. Also, you're kidding yourself if you think most XI HNMs required much strategy- In most cases, there was just one strategy, and generally only one moment (low HP) that required any change in tactics.

I fail to see what's fun or challenging about standing at a pop spot for several hours then having a low-ping contest with dozens of other people to see who can press provoke first.

Then give me an option.. something where every time you fight a monster it feels amazing and the drop you get feels great, and if you say 30 mins to an hour respawn on any monster that drops epic gear you sir have lost your speaking privileges.

And name one HNM that didn't require tatics from FFXI. Obviously you got used to them over time and it became second nature and easy but you couldn't just destroy it and send bodies at any of them. Please name one.

[Kryptic]

I understand what you're trying to say, but why can't we get that "ooh, shiny!" through fun and well-thought-out content instead of spending hours standing around waiting for something to pop and roll a random number to see who gets the 1% chance at an item drop in the ensuing provoke/dia/claim cluster#&$%? You don't need any of that crap to have fun exciting, really hard battles that have a small chance to give you a rare drop and subsequent "best feeling in the world". world bosses don't have to use obnoxious spawn mechanics to achieve the things that you yourself desire. It can be made a less stressful experience for *everyone* while still giving the "ooh, shiny!" effect.

Most people were lucky to get 1 try at that great piece of equipment, what with all the botting and cheating FFXI had at "traditional" HNMs. They can come up with a better content design such that everyone has a fair shot (by fair I mean equal, not fair as in "fair drop rate"), rather than the content being designed such that the number of people that have the rare item is determined by the difficulty, not the number of people with the patience to sit through boring hours of non-gameplay.

1) The fate system does not automatically imply every battle will be a zombie or mass attack clusterbomb. Also, you're kidding yourself if you think most XI HNMs required much strategy- In most cases, there was just one strategy, and generally only one moment (low HP) that required any change in tactics.

I fail to see what's fun or challenging about standing at a pop spot for several hours then having a low-ping contest with dozens of other people to see who can press provoke first.

And every single person brings up botting or cheating I don't understand, the server I was on had one linkshell who spent a fortune on a bot that literally did them nothing and we still out claimed them. If you get good at the timing and knowing which skills have the last cast time and whatever else you have the same amount of % to claim any monster. Stop bowing down to people who try to cheat and shove it in their face and laugh at them.

[AttacKat]

Oh, I got your point and agrees with that effort = reward.

In borrowing your quote, I was just trying to remind people that up to this point, effort doesn't equate to the hours you put in. So that in itself is a major issue SE needs to address, and they will.

But one major disagreement within the past few pages is that some considers camping = effort, while others considers pre-conditions to induce a force-pop = effort.

I do not believe those that are against the pop-window method are against putting in the effort. It just seems we have different meanings for "effort" in the discussion. To me, pop-window is just waiting around and is effortless, as I do not have to do anything, other then be there when the time is up.

jc

[Stephen]

Oh, I got your point and agrees with that effort = reward.

In borrowing your quote, I was just trying to remind people that up to this point, effort doesn't equate to the hours you put in. So that in itself is a major issue SE needs to address, and they will.

But one major disagreement within the past few pages is that some considers camping = effort, while others considers pre-conditions to induce a force-pop = effort.

I do not believe those that are against the pop-window method are against putting in the effort. It just seems we have different meanings for "effort" in the discussion. To me, pop-window is just waiting around and is effortless, as I do not have to do anything, other then be there when the time is up.

jc

Some very good points here, some would see camping an NM as 'effort' too though, you have to be patient and find things to keep you occupied i.e crafting/gathering. If the pop window is one of the larger ones then some coordination with your party to rotate camp also helps....

I understand what you mean - that some people don't have the time to camp or just see it as a boring waste of time.
I say that there should be some campable NMs and some instanced - if people don't want to camp the NMs then they don't have to.

I personally will enjoy both types of content and make the time/put in the effort to do so.

[Andrien]

Easy Mode = Standing around camping, and waiting for a pop window. It doesn't matter how many people participate, it rewards only a few that claims it fast enough.

Well Thought Out Content = Takes effort to complete, and a better sense of accomplishment for anyone that participates.


You pick.

[Jeronlmo]

And this is your problem. It is a video game. Meant to be fun and entertaining, and not to replace real life (merely provide a temporary escape). In FFXI, SE was a hypocrite...making you say yes to not forgetting family, friends, job, etc and then adding content to the contrary (and guess what? people like you dumped their life to get the content...yes, I know they didn't make you do it, BUT they provided the means for you to do it.) I have faith that Yoshi-P realizes this and doesn't create another contrary system like Old-XI style HNMs, because family, friends, job, and school will ALWAYS come first to me.

This is 100% your take on gaming, the casual take on it, which is fine, but accept what you are and be happy with it. For me and many others, gaming is about a challenge, and I have fun by being challenged. The only people that gaming "replaces" real life for are RPers and anyone at all who has ever claimed "immersion matters". The fact that you need to and in fact can "escape from reality" means your somewhat a RPer even if you do not RP with people... it goes into some kind of insanity I cannot imagine to suddenly believe the game is real.

Every other mmo out there (wow, rift, aion, gw... ect) has the "not forgetting family, friends, job, etc" BS because its mandated by law that they do so or they would be liable for crazy people who die at their computers. Now lets take wow... casual homeland, people still play alot, even though the raids in wow have week long lockouts, and theres virtually nothing worth doing... ever. Fact is, theres crazy people in the world and in every MMO, the fact that a few may have existed in FF11 means nothing except that youve been grasping at straws.

[Andrien]

1) Make up your mind on what the argument is. Reguardless of windows, it will still only reward those who claim fast enough.

It was in response to those that considers hardcore to be based on waiting hours upon hours for a single monster to pop.

2) A well thought out post from you would be nice but lets get past this. I tried to respond to the rest of this, but considering you apparently do not know what your talking about I could not even imagine what your version of "well thought out content" would be.

You can't be serious.. Apparently you have trouble comprehending what my statement means. I'll try to make it more simpler for you to understand. Now read closely.

**Well thought out content. What is content? Ex: Sky/Sea/Einherjar/Dungeons. They're all teaming with high level NMs, and at the end there is the true NM boss. The cream of the crop, the boss that drops that elite stuff.

You know these content requires coordination with other teammates, solving puzzles in dungeons, and some brain power.

The fact that you didn't get all that before worries me a little.