Highly Notorious Monsters

[Jeronlmo]

Obviously a lot of people hate the idea of HNMs but it's honestly some of the best experiences I ever had in FFXI. This is my outlook on it.

-Make it so that some of the gear you get from HNMs you can get in other places. Example Einharjar in ffxi and HNMs you can get the Adamant Hauberk etc from both.
So people who don't want to sit in an area for 3 hours at a time don't have to they can get the gear other ways. But people who are more dedicated to getting gear
and helping other people out have more of a chance to get the gear because they will go hunt the HNMs as well as do the dungeons. Reward those who put in the time.

-The skill factor, getting the people who know what they are doing, claiming it, setting up within a few seconds and getting in position is also extremely challenging and fun.
A lot of open world events never take a lot of skill, a lot of MMOs that have these you just go in zerg and watch random people die over and over.

-The satisfaction of getting a drop from a monster that spawns once a day is unmatchable. The NMs in FFXIV that spawn every 5 minutes are stupid and the most unrewarding thing
ever. I can see making some low level NMs that spawn every half hour or less but 5 minutes is pointless for higher level gear.

-48-72 hour spawn HNMs were a little to much I can see at least shortening it to 21-24 hours. I enjoyed it, though doesn't matter.

-I understand everyone thinks any time anyone gets claim they immediately botted. The shell I was in didn't bot(which I know you will all try to say I'm lying about)
and we beat most of the botters because they couldn't claim nidhogg with their bot they could only get fafnir. It's not impossible to beat the botters especially
if you get the timing down. People say "it spawned claimed" but after I upgraded my computer this is completely false. I began seeing every HNM unclaimed because my
computer can actually load it fast enough.


-It's an open world large group event which are hard to come by. Gathering an alliance of 12+ people and waiting for a Dragon to spawn is nerve wrecking. After camping HNMs
for 3+years I still got nervous during the windows.

-People always complain about MPK but they fixed that in FFXI by making it so the monster can't hurt other alliances as long as they don't have hate(excluding kings). Just copy this.

-How often are you standing in down waiting for events and crafting or just talking? It allows for more events to take place during "down time" for people who are restless
like me.

-Doing dungeons is great but it does get boring. It's nice to change it up!

A lot of the "hardcore players" want HNMs as well as the casual people who are into big boss battles. Imagine if in FFXI that Fafnir spawned every half hour, everyone would
be running around with ridills. It's what seperates elite players and people who want everything to easy.

-Everyone says use BCNM or KSNM just do them all! That's what made FFXI so good because there was so many things you could do. Why combine things when you can make
a ridiculous amount of content. I know people are gonna cry and complain and say "Oh you used bots you are a liar" and whatever else they want to say well you don't have
to believe me I know we never did. People who drop real money for in-game purposes are sad.


So keep in mind the people who will keep your game alive when everyone jumps ship when blizzard puts out some other garbage expansion, implement HNMs. This is my experience obviously and my opinions so take it for what it's worth.
You can never have enough content! The more gear the better, happy hunting!

I agree 100%, sadly SE has taken the easy route like every other mmo and decided to not have "Gear Swaps" which kept all these different events/gear useful through 10yrs in FF11, just like making servers regional (which you can argue all you want, they did) makes servers only active on prime-times, leads to large events not taking place during off times of the day due to the lack of people and a general slower progression (everything "modern" mmo's do lead to less actual thought/planning behind gear/events/design).

Reguardless of them bringing HNM's back, you know they will mess it up, were going to have 5min respawns or no claiming enabled with a common loot pool between 100 people, w/e they do, believe it will be broken.

Edit: I just see what 11 had and I see it as a package deal, you cannot take half of what it had and expect it to work, HNM's having 1-3 day+ respawns worked in FF11 because good gear didnt just die, it lasted forever, if gear is that hard to get and replaced every 1-2yrs, people will always complain. You need gear swaps to keep the gear relevant.

For the love of god do not start saying im advocating for gear swaps, the battle to not have a broken game is already lost, that convo does not belong here, I am simply saying you cannot have one without the other.

[Blackpearlguy]

It's just a Behemoth, not the King of them. At least that's what I hope

Ah that does make much more sense.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post945001

^^

Awesome thanks!

[Kryptic]

I agree 100%, sadly SE has taken the easy route like every other mmo and decided to not have "Gear Swaps" which kept all these different events/gear useful through 10yrs in FF11, just like making servers regional (which you can argue all you want, they did) makes servers only active on prime-times, leads to large events not taking place during off times of the day due to the lack of people and a general slower progression (everything "modern" mmo's do lead to less actual thought/planning behind gear/events/design).

Reguardless of them bringing HNM's back, you know they will mess it up, were going to have 5min respawns or no claiming enabled with a common loot pool between 100 people, w/e they do, believe it will be broken.

Edit: I just see what 11 had and I see it as a package deal, you cannot take half of what it had and expect it to work, HNM's having 1-3 day+ respawns worked in FF11 because good gear didnt just die, it lasted forever, if gear is that hard to get and replaced every 1-2yrs, people will always complain. You need gear swaps to keep the gear relevant.

For the love of god do not start saying im advocating for gear swaps, the battle to not have a broken game is already lost, that convo does not belong here, I am simply saying you cannot have one without the other.

We can only hope they don't mess it up. Reward the people who are willing to spend 3 hours in an area for epic gear. The people who don't give them an alternative to get some of the same gear somewhere else. Make exclusive gear for each monster and make gear swaps possible so every piece of gear is relevant and has a purpose. Everyone running around in the same gear and sets suck.

[Xatsh]

We can only hope they don't mess it up. Reward the people who are willing to spend 3 hours in an area for epic gear. The people who don't give them an alternative to get some of the same gear somewhere else. Make exclusive gear for each monster and make gear swaps possible so every piece of gear is relevant and has a purpose. Everyone running around in the same gear and sets suck.

It all depends on how SE wants to do it. Gear and Content getting negating is one of the largest negatives in WoW and the Clones. It is why there is always a shortage of content shortly after a new expansion is launched in almost every mmo since WoW's launch.

If there is a Top gear set, meaning say if you are BLM this set is always the best. Then any form of good endgame is out the window, but this is a whole nother battle that would be fought against the people who like content negation which seems to be the majority of westerners.

XI's rich and insanely large endgame worked because everything from Zilart through WoTG had a drop that was best in slot for something. It kept everything valid and gave you over 200hrs of endgame if you did everything in procession just once. Which if you do it enough to get every piece of gear you need it can easily add up to 30,000-40,000+ hrs of playtime. Which is a really good thing. This adds endless life to the mmo. Something no other mmo besides EQ, XI, and Linage have been able to do. It is easily the biggest strength of the old school mmos that was lost in the modern era. The mmo lost their never ending status when content was getting replaced. People expect mmos to be beatable now days, which is the saddest thing and genre breaking element of new mmos.

In a good mmo content is not fully clearable before more content is added. So every patch more and more and more stuff to do. The work you do to get the gear is not wasted because when you get it, that piece will be good for 5-6 more years.

[Jeronlmo]

We can only hope they don't mess it up. Reward the people who are willing to spend 3 hours in an area for epic gear. The people who don't give them an alternative to get some of the same gear somewhere else. Make exclusive gear for each monster and make gear swaps possible so every piece of gear is relevant and has a purpose. Everyone running around in the same gear and sets suck.

Fact is, the game is already made, an in Yoshi's words, its based on wow, even though i loved HNM's/long cooldowns and gear swaps from 11, you cannot take half of what worked in 11 and throw it into wow and expect it to still work.
Gear Swaps are not in the game and likely will never be, I knew people in FF11 who waited 4yrs never missing a dynamis run for a -1 rdm hat because they were so rare, if content is replaced every 1-2yrs, will you still do the event? The same can be said for HNM's, would you wait 4yrs for an E.body knowing that halfway through its going to be worthless?

If HNM's were exactly what they were in 11, it simply would not work, it cant. The fact that content will be replaced every 1-2yrs guarantees there will be short respawns, high drop rates, and in general gimpy content.

Again, I am not advocating for any of these old discussions, the game will be as broken as any other current mmo full of instant gratification content for 12yr olds, im simply saying your ideas are sadly flawed.

[Kryptic]

Fact is, the game is already made, an in Yoshi's words, its based on wow, even though i loved HNM's/long cooldowns and gear swaps from 11, you cannot take half of what worked in 11 and throw it into wow and expect it to still work.
Gear Swaps are not in the game and likely will never be, I knew people in FF11 who waited 4yrs never missing a dynamis run for a -1 rdm hat because they were so rare, if content is replaced every 1-2yrs, will you still do the event? The same can be said for HNM's, would you wait 4yrs for an E.body knowing that halfway through its going to be worthless?

If HNM's were exactly what they were in 11, it simply would not work, it cant. The fact that content will be replaced every 1-2yrs guarantees there will be short respawns, high drop rates, and in general gimpy content.

Again, I am not advocating for any of these old discussions, the game will be as broken as any other current mmo full of instant gratification content for 12yr olds, im simply saying your ideas are sadly flawed.

It won't be a complete WoW clone..I'm betting on it being a hybrid hopefully with more FFXI than WOW in it. The playerbase for this game and the fans aren't like the WOW ones hopefully they see it and figure it out before it's to late. My ideas can still happen it's all about how they apply new content and level caps as well as how often. They have a good developing team so I hope they see my main post and really look at it. It's a long-shot but I can hope.

[Shougun]

I seriously think it's going to be a game where you can get some of the best gear with only playing 30 min to an hour at a time. That is what people want right? It's sad but true.

What is wrong with that?

I'm assuming you mean 30 mins to an hour a day, for an extended period of time. If you mean one time 30 min = best gear then I guess I do see something wrong with that.

[Alhanelem]

Obviously a lot of people hate the idea of HNMs but it's honestly some of the best experiences I ever had in FFXI. This is my outlook on it.

Most of us don't hate HNMs, we just hate the waiting game. I'd LOVE HNMs if it was all about the NM itself and the gear was rare and amazing because the fight was hard. The only reason I didn't like FFXI's HNMs is because you spent most of your time waiting. Yes, if you got creative you could ensure the time wasn't totally wasted, but for the most part, that's what people did: wait. 960 posts later and I still dont understand why people think having to not play the game for 30 minutes, check the game for 30 seconds to see if the NM pops, then go back to not playing the game and repeat that several times is good game design. Yes, I suppose it is one way to ensure that gear is rare, by making it so no sane person would be willing to not play the game they paid good money for for several hours just to for a *chance* to fight an NM that has a *chance* to drop the rare item.

I just don't see any of that as necessary to either have nice gear rewards or a competitive spirit/atomsphere.

I seriously think it's going to be a game where you can get some of the best gear with only playing 30 min to an hour at a time. That is what people want right? It's sad but true.

I don't understand why the best gear in the game should only be accessible to people who play the game like it's a job and not like it's an actual game. It's absolutely unhealthy when a game requires you to play it as many hours a day as you would work a job. Why can't gear rarity come from challenge rather than waiting forever and ever for a mob to spawn?

Honestly FFXIV already did a decent job of that with the primal fights. Despite their best efforts, some people just couldn't beat garuda, or hard rivenroad. They just aren't good enough and that's okay. It's a lot better than not even having a chance because you don't have the time to waste being idle for hours and hours.

I had a lot of fun battling some of FFXI's hardest HNMs. I just didn't have fun sitting around waiting for certain ones to pop when there were a lot of other things in the game that i could have accomplished. Tiamat was one of the best ones- for a while people didn't really understand the exact pop windows/times and for a while it didn't matter, because Tiamat was a challenge when it was new and it was up all the time because it was a tough fight. Vrtra is another example of that.

The "3 kings" as we called them were changed to be force pops instead of timed pops with spawn windows, and the funny part is this actually made the items more rare- proof that you don't have to have spawn windows and long timers to have gear that not everybody can get.

[Xatsh]

Remove set spawn windows and it solves the issue with having to camp it. just make it random no more 23-24 with 30min windows. Make it where it is not campable remove the small spawn areas. Those 2 things seem to be most peoples complaints so just remove those 2 aspects.

As for hard content, that is half the battle. Garuda or even several dozen fights like that will not replace nms in the open world at all. That style of content is really good, but it is not even remotely the same.

[Xatsh]

I seriously think it's going to be a game where you can get some of the best gear with only playing 30 min to an hour at a time. That is what people want right? It's sad but true.

There is nothing wrong with this model.. The model becomes bad when people expect to start seeing something every 30min cycle. Or when someone who plays 30mins feel entitled to have the same progression as someone playing 6hrs a day. The all reward no work model is ruining the mmo genre. People need to start having to work towards a goal again. Not jsut being handed the best gear in the game by loging online.

The hard content being a replacement argument does not work. Because there is no such thing as hard content once it is learned. Strategies will get posted and people will all start beating it. Only way content can be hard is if someone actually was controlling the boss. If it is computerized it follows a pattern which can be figured out and a strat can easily be formed.