Highly Notorious Monsters

[schism]

I guess if your LS leader is a dick lol.

Oh the joys of gearing up your asshole leet leader

[Alhanelem]

think we're all starting to think the camping part isn't fun- for some of us it is! If the NM wasn't cornered into a small spot on a map it could be really cool to have your LS running around on the hunt.

The few examples of where camping an NM required you to be actively playing the game are the few examples where camping was actually good. But I'm speaking for the bulk of HNMs in XI where all you did was go to his spawn point, go AFK, and check every 30 minutes to see if it pops or not.

For most of the camps, most people did not enjoy the actual camping process. The only exciting moments are 1) the rush that occurs as the NM pops and you scramble to get it and 2) the rush of fighting the NM itself (to me, by far the most important part). You can have these things without stupid nonesense like 30 minute random spawn windows.

Honestly, if you love sitting at a mob's spawn for a few hours waiting for it to pop, I think you should stick to FFXI or another MMO of its era, and let FFXIV try to implement it in a different way that's less about not playing the game and more about actually playing it.

FFXI isn't going away anytime real soon, considering another expansion is on the way. The games are different enough for both to keep running and both to have a distinct player base.

I know some people are going to react that "go play another game" isn't a good argument. But, in case it matters, I'm playing that other game right now. I may even keep both subs running for a while. There are things about both games I like, and sometimes I'll want to play one and sometimes the other.

[Exn]

Stuff

We've already dispelled the myth you keeping creating that you had to sit, stare, and wait between pop windows. As many times as you keep trying to use that excuse, it's a completely baseless arguement and only shows your obvious 'player error'. Just because you can't accept it, that will never change the facts. You wasted your own time, doing something you didn't even enjoy, the wrong way.. Period.

If you say 'go back to XI', everyone else can just tell you to 'go back to WoW'.

It's simple, you personally never liked the window system, and feel that alone justifies it being excluded from the game. Your entitled to w/e opinion.

The window system 1st) staggered the pops so it wouldn't pop at the same time everyday (eliminating anyone who was unavailable at let's say 'noon' every single day..) 2) increased the suspense and community by adding some randomness to when exactly it was going to pop (obviously one one possible pop window takes that all away.. Ppl would just show up a minute before the pop, not claim, and roll out, event over.. I met over half my friends list on various campings of NM and HNM) 3) allowed and encouraged pug and ls pt activities in between the windows (for the ppl who understood SE obviously didn't want you twiddling your thumbs or staring at a screen with no action for hrs..which changed with dark ixion/sw, though they had a much shorter open window).

Even though you obviously didn't get it, the system definitely had purpose. Sure, as I said before, it could be tweaked more to appeal to those who don't prefer a window system (shorter open windows, shorter windows), but open world HNM (not FATE spamfest system) shouldn't be excluded for you guys who never even understood it in the first place. I'm all for force spawn and alot of other suggestions in this thread as well, but if ARR is going to stand out, it will need all of these types of content to continually appeal to the masses.

[Radacci]

I hear whining how boring FF14 is, cause everyone wanna solo!
I hear people say how awesome the community was in XI
I hear people from XI say they dont wanna do HNM together with anyone else. Just their little leet group of people who know how to do tactics. And how boring it is to do things together with the Community. It just turns everything to button mashing.
so i wonder....why do you want HNMs in open world anyways?
Just make everything instanced, so you dont have to meet the rest of the community...

[Blackpearlguy]

I hear whining how boring FF14 is, cause everyone wanna solo!
I hear people say how awesome the community was in XI
I hear people from XI say they dont wanna do HNM together with anyone else. Just their little leet group of people who know how to do tactics. And how boring it is to do things together with the Community. It just turns everything to button mashing.
so i wonder....why do you want HNMs in open world anyways?
Just make everything instanced, so you dont have to meet the rest of the community...

I think you misunderstood what I was saying.. You aren't always going to run around with your linkshell, sometimes you'll want to do other things! This is when FATE will work really great, say that Empire x is attacking empire y and it's up to those who are logged on to help fight these battles across the entire world. Gives that player a little attack/defend/NM fight with random community members while gaining exp. From the FATE event you could form an exp/instance/quest party.

HNM needs to have there own distinctive value (what makes them different and interesting), having to dispatch a number of lesser mobs to get a special item before popping the mega mob seems like a good but old system (Maybe for lesser NMs ie Leaping Lizzy). Interactive camping like Dark Ixion and SW from FFXI would work, because you'd need to skill and coordination just to fight, and then the fight itself would hopefully be extremely hard.

In others defense don't mind me i'm a bias former FFXI player, however I have also played Tera/WoW/GW2/PW/SWtor and saw the glaringly obvious mistakes that have occurred by making everything instanced and so you can run through a world without even interacting with others in it. Excuse the essay, I just think this will be a big part of endgame which will be VERY important to our playerbase and deserves contributions by those of us who have experience in MMOs.

[Radacci]

I think you misunderstood what I was saying.. You aren't always going to run around with your linkshell, sometimes you'll want to do other things! This is when FATE will work really great, say that Empire x is attacking empire y and it's up to those who are logged on to help fight these battles across the entire world. Gives that player a little attack/defend/NM fight with random community members while gaining exp. From the FATE event you could form an exp/instance/quest party.

HNM needs to have there own distinctive value (what makes them different and interesting), having to dispatch a number of lesser mobs to get a special item before popping the mega mob seems like a good but old system (Maybe for lesser NMs ie Leaping Lizzy). Interactive camping like Dark Ixion and SW from FFXI would work, because you'd need to skill and coordination just to fight, and then the fight itself would hopefully be extremely hard.

In others defense don't mind me i'm a bias former FFXI player, however I have also played Tera/WoW/GW2/PW/SWtor and saw the glaringly obvious mistakes that have occurred by making everything instanced and so you can run through a world without even interacting with others in it. Excuse the essay, I just think this will be a big part of endgame which will be VERY important to our playerbase and deserves contributions by those of us who have experience in MMOs.

and since HNM are open world anyways, what's the difference?
sounds silly you'd need to be in a LS party, otherwise the fight couldn't possible need any skill....
it would surely be harder to coordinate things with random people outside party, but that doesn't mean it needs to be a no-skill fight. DPS can do their thing, tanks can tank, WHM can curaga everyone around them, etc.
You can do any tactical fight with a group; if everyone knows what they are doing you dont even need to discuss tactics. If everyone knows what they are doing, you don't even need a party; which is why a FATE can be as tactical as any instanced/group boss anyways. And i'm sure HNM were buttonmashers with multiple parties there anyways. Just like atomos was with 100ppl; but with just 10 ppl, something else entirely.
I wouldn't mind if there something specific you need to do to summon some HNM or whatever, but it wouldn't really change the fact it turns into buttonmasher with lots of people there? Unless you summon it somewhere else, with your LS. But that removes the point of open world content anyways. And if it don't need lots of people to kill it, i don't know what's so *highly* notorious about them anyways.

Oh and i just watched a vid of 2 ppl fighting Dark Ixion...i didn't see any of the skill needed to fight it...
Can you link any vid showing some fight needing tactics? that couldn't be done in FATE?

[Exn]

and since HNM are open world anyways, what's the difference?
sounds silly you'd need to be in a LS party, otherwise the fight couldn't possible need any skill....
it would surely be harder to coordinate things with random people outside party, but that doesn't mean it needs to be a no-skill fight. DPS can do their thing, tanks can tank, WHM can curaga everyone around them, etc.
You can do any tactical fight with a group; if everyone knows what they are doing you dont even need to discuss tactics. If everyone knows what they are doing, you don't even need a party; which is why a FATE can be as tactical as any instanced/group boss anyways. And i'm sure HNM were buttonmashers with multiple parties there anyways. Just like atomos was with 100ppl; but with just 10 ppl, something else entirely.
I wouldn't mind if there something specific you need to do to summon some HNM or whatever, but it wouldn't really change the fact it turns into buttonmasher with lots of people there? Unless you summon it somewhere else, with your LS. But that removes the point of open world content anyways. And if it don't need lots of people to kill it, i don't know what's so *highly* notorious about them anyways.

Oh and i just watched a vid of 2 ppl fighting Dark Ixion...i didn't see any of the skill needed to fight it...
Can you link any vid showing some fight needing tactics? that couldn't be done in FATE?

Spoken like someone who's never experienced a similar system ( see RIFT, GW2,etc.). Non-claimable 'HNM' has always been a spamfest of just throwing bodies at it until it dies. Sure you could try to grab a small group of friends to try to strategically make it a challenge, but what's the point when you've already 'beat' the 'HNM' ten times last week with the rest of the server who was online at the time.. And nothing is stopping other players from showing up and ruining your attempt at executing it in your fashion.

Claimable HNM in XI was never 'button-mash' as you tried to claim (well maybe after level cap was maxed at 99 and you went back to faceroll old content...like your DI vid - even tho he was always easy to kite, harder to kill). Clearly you never attempted it per Abyssea ( or at all.). I'm not arguing that HNM were very hard either (even though you wouldn't b able to tell that by watching some LS wipe) but compared to non-claimable hop-in hop-out style 'HNM' its a complete joke. They don't even compare as a matter of fact. And yes, some HNM did require you to have a lot of ppl to kill it.. Again I guess your not speaking from experience, not just claimable HNM can require a lot of ppl, but dungeons/raids too very easily, mmos have been using dps checks as an aspect of the encounter for years.

[Radacci]

Spoken like someone who's never experienced a similar system ( see RIFT, GW2,etc.). Non-claimable 'HNM' has always been a spamfest of just throwing bodies at it until it dies. Sure you could try to grab a small group of friends to try to strategically make it a challenge, but what's the point when you've already 'beat' the 'HNM' ten times last week with the rest of the server who was online at the time.. And nothing is stopping other players from showing up and ruining your attempt at executing it in your fashion.

Claimable HNM in XI was never 'button-mash' as you tried to claim (well maybe after level cap was maxed at 99 and you went back to faceroll old content...like your DI vid - even tho he was always easy to kite, harder to kill). Clearly you never attempted it per Abyssea ( or at all.). I'm not arguing that HNM were very hard either (even though you wouldn't b able to tell that by watching some LS wipe) but compared to non-claimable hop-in hop-out style 'HNM' its a complete joke. They don't even compare as a matter of fact. And yes, some HNM did require you to have a lot of ppl to kill it.. Again I guess your not speaking from experience, not just claimable HNM can require a lot of ppl, but dungeons/raids too very easily, mmos have been using dps checks as an aspect of the encounter for years.

I have never played XI no.
So enlighten me how claimable bosses are harder, and need more skill?
to quote you "And nothing is stopping other players from showing up and ruining your attempt at executing it in your fashion" so it's just a matter of your ego wanting to be 1 of few to kill it? which brings me back to my point, why even have it as open world content at all? lets just make it instanced, so god forbid, you're not forced to endure the community interfering with your business....in an MMO...

[MikeXiv]

Its simple just implement it for us that want it. For the people who disagree its also very simple do other content, no one is forcing you to do HNMS. Certain gear is supposed to be rare and that's what creates value. Not everyone will be able to obtain the same piece and if your upset with that then i suppose you think everyone at your job (if you have one) should all get the same exact pay

[AresGodofwar]

There i got your solution for the whole large HNM system....

Idea#1 Only a 1 "Free Company" group can kill all of those HNMs during a period of 1 days then it pass on to another "Free Comapny"

Idea#2 Having only 1 "Super Free Company" which will be the only company to take on HNMs, member selection will be done by a SE ranking. (any other ideas?)

Idea#3 HNMs can pop randomly at anytime and anywhere, that will cancel campers and windows.

or make it like exactly like XI, sometime i enjoyed my 30min window break to watch TV or doing something else in RL..