Highly Notorious Monsters

[Wilksha]

Only thing I don't want to see about HNM is the fact from FFXI's earlier days, is that I had to be in a very renouwned group to even get a chance to see these great creatures let alone fight them. In FFXI I've done nearly everything pre WotG except HNMs because all the HNM ls were to stuck up and haughty, something I exceedingly detest. Make them more accessible to groups that perhaps just want to attempt a feat without having to compete over the SUPER ELITE. I've always wanted to fight the HNMs in FFXI, but the LS that where doing them were just unlikable to me. I wanted the experience o fighting a great beast, not solely off the rewards of it's drops. Drops are just a bonus for a job accomplished.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

The monster difficulty would result in every person needing to do their job, and making each job necessary, for instance an AOE that hits all melee within range, that would result instacking ranged like the most part of endgame in 1.0 and the dead of the game

fixed for you

[Radacci]

Isn't Fate system gonna group everyone together into 1 party? if so there wont be any claim wars or such. anyone participating will be eligagble for rewards, as long as you contribute enough i guess. dont think some low lv could show up, do 10damage, and get good gear
And honestly i don't think it matters what respawn time is, there's probably gonna be multiple options in many different lv ranges. Might be possible to cycle FATEs with not to much downtime.

[Nadrojj]

fixed for you

So make damage types that the mob goes through? This was just a suggestion to what someone mentioned and not really something I sat down and gave a huge amount of thought to. However make the mob cycle through different damage types, immune to magic damage during one phase, immune to piercing in one stage and so on. Just a thought, in no way am I saying this would work but I'm sure the devs could institute some kind of work around for just stacking one type of damage against the mob.

[strallaalaa]

i liked hnm's, i loved the full linkshell fighting part of it mostly. and i hated the time afk waiting. so for

1. they should be full linkshell or very large group oriented. aka 16-32 players (at the very least)
2. rather then time waiting there should be quicker/ if anything instant repops of hnm's in that zone after it dies or still pops if still being killed if 10mins passes or something to that extent.

basically my thought is the down time for a mob you are fighting mobs in that area that are constintly swarming and attacking agressively anyone in that area. so we don't go afk and come back every 25mins but are fighting things. like atomos fight would be good, and then pop comes the HNM ...and the mobs your killing can drop items that give you higher drop rates. since HNM's should keep popping everyone should be there fighting for HNM's but also always killing mobs that can higher your drop rates, maybe items that instant pop HNM, or special HNM with 100% drop rate*super rare* what have you. even can have small things and buffs from the smaller mobs. heck you can enter that area and it makes everyone naked and the killing of smaller stuff slowly gears you like in salvage event. anything other then sitting there afk.

also on the repops, as an after thought. it would be really cool if the HNM is claimed and being fought that another in that area can pop within 5mins. so that other groups can grab it, or even a full linkshell with enough people can grab it, then another pops every 5mins as long as one is being fought or killed. that could be pretty entertaining for linkshells to do together. HNM farming, with low drop rates. but i still love the idea of the atomos type event,where HNM's also have smaller mobs to kill inbetween each pop.

also to add about F.A.T.E it's not the same, that is just an open world event. it's dumbed down cause your not in full made parties and rather you are just a solo person in a large group. it's like campaign battles. but they are hyping it with these huge boss like mobs instead. games like tera have mobs that big as normal mobs to fight and it was still boring as crap. it's not no wear near what a HHM like ffxi had.

[Radacci]

also to add about F.A.T.E it's not the same, that is just an open world event. it's dumbed down cause your not in full made parties and rather you are just a solo person in a large group. it's like campaign battles. but they are hyping it with these huge boss like mobs instead. games like tera have mobs that big as normal mobs to fight and it was still boring as crap. it's not no wear near what a HHM like ffxi had.

yes but isnt odin supposed to be a FATE? so NMs, HNMs would be too. they spawn, there's message to everyone on map, and icon appears on map, people go there fight, them go their own ways, like with Atomos. It would be pretty strange to have *BAMs* only as FATEs.
The point i think is so you wont have claim wars or such, but anyone can come and participate. which sounds good to me. you shouln't need to be in an end game LS to get anything, since you're there contributing anyways.

[strallaalaa]

yes but isnt odin supposed to be a FATE? so NMs, HNMs would be too. they spawn, there's message to everyone on map, and icon appears on map, people go there fight, them go their own ways, like with Atomos. It would be pretty strange to have *BAMs* only as FATEs.
The point i think is so you wont have claim wars or such, but anyone can come and participate. which sounds good to me. you shouln't need to be in an end game LS to get anything, since you're there contributing anyways.

well that will be where we will disagree, if your not doing it with the same group, not strategising over the fight, it's not gonna be that difficult. it will be easy, or will be complained that ohh i can't solo it and it will get made even easier. but the biggest thing is everyone on server running to there is cool for events, but that isn't what HNM is, that isn't what the top gear in a mmo is going to be, least not with a successful mmo that breads players that play it for years. as for claim wars they can figure out ways to do without, even the ideas i posted remove them and other ideas in this post as well. things like atomos with pop drops in it for the real hnm, or what have you. no matter what though, that is what linkshells used to be, right now they are just useless hubs. you should have to know your place in a very strategic battle for things like this, otherwise it's dinky stuff like what F.A.T.E. is. dinky stuff like what gw2 has, dinky stuff that every mmo is putting in there games and people are leaving in hordes.

these mmo companies will not evolutionize there players, we want what we want and they can burn all there money trying but they will not succeed. you casual and solo players will keep playing by yourselves till the game goes f2p. and i didn't mean that directly at you radacci but all that think they can convince players who know what a real mmo is that these new mmo directions are the bees knees.

[Pwnagraphic]

NM's were awesome, and I think just like with Chocobo's, they can become a normal thing apart of the FF universe. I like the idea of them and I'm glad they're here to stay and that doesn't mean that's a copy+paste of XI. Most of FF has stuff from it's predecessors.

[reefo]

I want to see HNM make a come back in ffxiv. It's absolutely one of the best things from ffxi to carry over. I don't want them to be popped with items, that really defeats a lot of the fun of finding them or camping them. I want to see them handled differently however then simply popping and the first one to hit it, claims it within a matter of seconds.

The way SE combated bots in XI was simply putting a 1-3s time interval when the HNM spawned, it was unclaimable. If you tried to claim before it became vulnerable, you were locked out from claiming for a few extra seconds (long enough that someone else would get the claim usually). Now any wise man could determine in order to win claims effectively against this countermeasure is to simply spread the times of your ls' claims over that 1-3s. This is exactly what players did, and what NASA mastered. Nothing was all that special about NASA, except that it divided the lock out time evenly between all the players connected and made it easier to configure an alliance as a whole. A ls that I may or may not have been in had one, and it worked wonderfully, however players with normal bots and players without bots could just as easily get lucky and claim at the right time. This made it somewhat fair, however it remained considerably flawed.

When wotg came out and we had sandworm and ixion, claim bots became almost obsolete in claiming them, except for one pretty decent measure. The bot could tell if the ID location of the monster changed, and it could sound the alarm to alert the LS the HNM was up in one of the zones. This method of having an extremely large pop zone across many zones was a decent countermeasure for botting, however there was still a program developed specifically to track the HNMs in the zone and was quite accurate in telling you when and which zone the HNM was in. So again in my eyes, I felt it was ultimately a failure as any sort of anti-botting measure.

I think the best way to counter botting and allow for HNMs in the game is simply making the HNM have a 15-30minute (or more) window of invulnerability. Such that when it spawns players can attempt to claim it, however if they guess wrong and the invulnerability isn't over-

A.) They simply get killed by an invulnerable HNM. and/or
B.) They are locked out from claiming for 5 min (or more).

The greatest power the bot has is it's speed and accuracy. When the HNM is invulnerable for only 1-3s then it's very easy to set the bots to claim at .8, 1.0, 1.2, 1.4 ... 2.8, 3.0 etc. However I don't see this being the case if the invulnerability is long enough. People can still use bots to claim, but they are on the same level playing field as players who are not using the bots.

This is just one idea and could probably use some tweaking, but I feel it's a step forward. I think the important part is to make the system in such a way that botting gives little to no advantage over regular play, because if there is an advantage to be had- players will exploit it. Sure we can say don't bot and curse players that do, but the reality is if the system wasn't designed so poorly and easily exploitable, then there simply wouldn't be a place for the bot in the first place.

TLDR: Increase the invulnerability from 1-3 seconds (in ffxi) to something considerably longer to combat the speed and accuracy of bots.

PS. >>> GIVE US HNM!

[AttacKat]

Thread TOO OLD, didn't read ...

But on a serious note ... Why don't you guys reserve your "thinking" caps until after B2, and maybe even B3? Once we have a few runs thru ARR as it takes form in ways that we have yet experienced?

This whole OP is based on 1.0, pre 1.19, and I do not believe we can even classify 2.0 to be the "same game"; therefore, discussions based on the old 1.x is really moot.

jc