Highly Notorious Monsters

[Abhayaa]

Also, I think I should add this. I helped lead an endgame LS for around a year. Sometimes we'd do sky, sometimes we'd do sea, sometimes we'd do HNM (sometimes we claimed them). We never felt any huge loss when we lost claim on an HNM or something, because our enjoyment of the game didn't depend on a certain piece of gear. Our ability to work cohesively as a group made far more difference than one paladin having a defending ring. Thus the content was completely optional. A similar level of satisfaction could be brought by force pop NMs. Personally, sky and sea were my all time favorites. This doesn't mean I didn't have a lot of fun, especially with lower level HNM like Roc or Simurgh. Sitting there 3 hours was not the most fun, as most of us agree, so we've proposed sufficient measures to fix this. Like OP said though, this doesn't mean we shouldn't keep a couple of long windows around.

The simple fact is that all content is optional. Even in XI, if an HNM dropped the best piece of gear I could have, I didn't feel like I was missing out just because I had to have AF2 instead of dalmatica (or whatever, I can't remember which was better). Similar yet different levels of "eliteness" could be achieved in XI whether you chose force pop, instance, or open world. I would like the same to be true of XIV. I would also like to address the grievances people have with XI's system in order to achieve the maximum level of support. But in the end, as everyone's said, the best way to do this is variety.

All content is OPTIONAL. If you feel like it's not, you need to take a deep breath and turn your computer off for a day.

[Richard_BG]

All content is OPTIONAL. If you feel like it's not, you need to take a deep breath and turn your computer off for a day.

QFT

lolpeoplearegoingtoragesohard

...and even if you MUST occupy yourself will content, there should be enough varied content in the game that will keep you and everyone of other mindsets happy.

[Alhanelem]

I was loving even days like these:
POP!
....
NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Missed Nidd AGAIN!!
....
PlzWipePlzWipePlz
....
OMG! OMG! OMG! SW POP La'Theine Plateau [S]!!! GO! GO! GO!
Screw Nidd, everyone GO GO GO!
....
GDI!! Already Claimed...
....
BOOO!!!!!
OK (Gather together)(Einherjar) - Odin - 15(Minute)!

Having your plans ruined and having to constantly fall back onto other things? You actually found that fun?

[Coglin]

Having your plans ruined and having to constantly fall back onto other things? You actually found that fun?

If you actually go there "planning" to get a claim your goals are a little shortsightedly unintelligent. Is unintelligently foolish enough to assume folkes literally "planned" on getting the claim fun?

[Abhayaa]

Having your plans ruined and having to constantly fall back onto other things? You actually found that fun?

To some extent, I actually do. A little bit of salt makes the sugar sweeter. Adapting to any given situation can often be more rewarding than having your plan go off without a hitch.

XIV NMs right now, for example, are all sugar. You go there, you kill it. If you don't get the drop you wait 5 minutes and try again. What's the fun in that? The lack of effort diminishes the reward.

[Hirmu]

Having your plans ruined and having to constantly fall back onto other things? You actually found that fun?

I did find this fun as well. If the competition was fair, it was a thrill to try and claim the NM. If we lost, I cheered those who won. If they got drop, I congratulated them. It wasn't about plans being ruined, it was just about losing a competition. There's a world of difference between the two. But sure as it was, too often the joy was taken by botters and whatnot.

This thread shows well some of the differences between player's attitudes. I personally dislike the way many modern MMO-gamers want their game to always actively entertain them and they always need to succeed in everything. Call me a masochist, but I want my game to have elements that are just too hard for me to do. I like the fact that I don't always win. And I really don't see why I should feel bad if there's some content that's not withing my reach or a piece of gear that's just too hard to get. But of course, everything in moderation and I agree that FFXI was a bit too harsh on some things.

[KyrsIsley]

I did find this fun as well. If the competition was fair, it was a thrill to try and claim the NM. If we lost, I cheered those who won. If they got drop, I congratulated them. It wasn't about plans being ruined, it was just about losing a competition. There's a world of difference between the two. But sure as it was, too often the joy was taken by botters and whatnot.

This thread shows well some of the differences between player's attitudes. I personally dislike the way many modern MMO-gamers want their game to always actively entertain them and they always need to succeed in everything. Call me a masochist, but I want my game to have elements that are just too hard for me to do. I like the fact that I don't always win. And I really don't see why I should feel bad if there's some content that's not withing my reach or a piece of gear that's just too hard to get. But of course, everything in moderation and I agree that FFXI was a bit too harsh on some things.

This I agree, but as you said, "If the competition was fair". The HNM competition from FFXI was far from fair, every major HNM LS on the server at one point admitted that they do have bots, it's only a matter of who has the more "advanced" bot. I don't mind losing to another fellow player, but I do mind very much when I lose to a bot, it's an unfair advantage, and I hope that SE do a better job this time to prevent something like this from happening again, if they do implement HNMs.

[Matsume]

I don't thin ka isaw anyone mention this yet : MAKE NM/HNM DROPS CRAFTABLE (yes like uraeus Doublet) WITH HQ VERSIONS POSSIBLE PLEASE.

Edit this suggestion into the OP please

[lord_Niax]

No, that makes it pointless to farm them.

[ThePatriarch]

I did find this fun as well. If the competition was fair, it was a thrill to try and claim the NM. If we lost, I cheered those who won. If they got drop, I congratulated them. It wasn't about plans being ruined, it was just about losing a competition. There's a world of difference between the two. But sure as it was, too often the joy was taken by botters and whatnot.

This thread shows well some of the differences between player's attitudes. I personally dislike the way many modern MMO-gamers want their game to always actively entertain them and they always need to succeed in everything. Call me a masochist, but I want my game to have elements that are just too hard for me to do. I like the fact that I don't always win. And I really don't see why I should feel bad if there's some content that's not withing my reach or a piece of gear that's just too hard to get. But of course, everything in moderation and I agree that FFXI was a bit too harsh on some things.

I feel the same as you do. For all the times that you missed claim on fafnir, then suddenly 1st day nid pops and you beat the others LS's to it and get double E.body. It's those moments that made everything worth it, you were so happy to be at the spot and that time. It's memories like that, that get screenshotted and people friends will talk about that for years to come. FFXIV doesn't have moments like that because content get smashed out way to quickly. There is plenty of challenge yes, but (imo), not nearly hard enough.

As per your bot statement, it has been rehashed over and over and over again, and I'm sure if we get any more newposters in this thread, they won't take time to flip through, and will start an argument based on bots all over again (phew, so many commas).

None of us want bots. We are striving for a competitive, clean, bot/cheat free HNM system. We have alot of people saying that it's not possibly, but I think we all the plans that we have rolled out, that it is not only possible, it is higher than likely.

@Matsume: Added to the OP under "Drops" (I added the word "Some" however, because I don't think that ALL drops should be like that, but I'm sure you would agree. Variety!)