Highly Notorious Monsters

[Cichy]

Here's the thing. If they would plan to increase level cap by lets say atleast 10 leves a year and add appropriate content it would not be that bad. They could add 1 great item per HNM and still keep other content relative if done properly.
XI was at 75 cap for so long, when they raised the cap everyone screamed bloody murder but if they do it once a year people will know what to expect. Also, it will help them to see what is the most popular type of content and develop content accordingly.

[Abhayaa]

Why are people still busting into this thread to say they're against copy pasting ffxi NMs when almost no one here is suggesting that. What we've suggested are compromises that cover most people's concerns about open world NMs. Please read up before ya speak up. :]

[ThePatriarch]

Why are people still busting into this thread to say they're against copy pasting ffxi NMs when almost no one here is suggesting that. What we've suggested are compromises that cover most people's concerns about open world NMs. Please read up before ya speak up. :]

Most people instantly come to the last page and begin reading into the thread, not many start at the OP, which is why we have so many arguments!

We are still welcome to any ideas/arguments, but it would save all of us unnecessary responses to invalid arguments if people would start at the beginning!

I am very interested in seeing what the Dev's think about these concepts, would be great to hear from them

[Alhanelem]

If you're not going to read my post or take it seriously, then read KyrsIsely's post above. He can say it a lot better than I can.

I can appreciate that you dislike the idea of HNMs. Thats great. Steer clear of them.

No. They shouldn't exist unless the problems they carried with them from FFXI are fully addressed. Which, I fully support addressing those issues. What I don't want is the original pattern of HNMs lifted straight from FFXI with 3 hour spawn windows and multi-day repop times. What I do want are big, challenging bosses, just like just about anyone here. But Jumping through a million hoops and fighting with other groups of players over who gets the chance to fight the monsters is not fun in any way shape or form. It's only tolerable if you don't have to wait forever for another chance.

Anyone who had played an MMO before did. Open world Named or Natorious Monsters was the standard in pretty much all MMOs.. Just because you were ignorant to that fact doesn't mean the rest of us were.

1) NMs != HNMs. We already have NMs. We don't have HNMs.
2) I'm not ignorant to that fact.

What appears to make less sense, is your making an uneducated attempt to tell us it that even if HNMs are precedented in a previous game, such as FFXI, that we shouldn't have them hear because players wouldn't have known what they were before hand? Seriously? Know that you think about it, that logic seems kind of, well.....stupid.

Umm... that's not what I'm trying to tell you at all, and I don't even have any idea how you came to interpret my posts that way. So no.

I'm fine with the fact that the OP is suggesting ways to address the problems of the old system.

No one has actually offered one logical reason why they should not be implimented, because there isn't one.

There have been tons of perfectly logical reasons why the HNM system, as we know it from FFXI, should not be implemented. Implementing a newer, better system devoid of the idle time and stupid nonsense that came with the old system is a great idea and I fully support it.

You know you're playing a flawed system when you spend more time playing iSketch or some other game on the internet than you do actually... playing the game you're intending to play.
(iSketch was an old standby time-passer for HNM-goers. It's a pictionary-like game that happened to include a final fantasy-related word list (or maybe it was created by players, i don't know for sure). So, first HNM spawn window comes... wait for it, wait for it, no pop. Time to go AFK for half an hour. Let's play iSketch!. *30 min later* next pop window....... No pop. Back to iSketch!)

I really don't understand how anyone that wasn't part of a botting, cheating LS or an LS that did everything they could to make other groups wipe (which led to a special command to block assistance from ppl outside your party) could truly enjoy FFXI's HNM system. The fights with the monsters were epic- the fights amongst the players, and the waiting, and the cheating, not so much.


FFXI needs a big scary monster system. But it needs one that's intelligently designed and reasonably fair to all who want to participate. The OP and I clearly agree on that.

[DarthTaru]

Open world HNM's ARE and have ALWAYS been fair to all who want to participate.
You're on a server.
An HNM pops on that server.
You try to claim it.
You try to hold it.
You try to kill it.

It's the same for everyone.

[DarthTaru]

Square Enix did the instant repop thing with the low tier NM's they released a year or so ago (Cactuar Jack, Old Six Arms, etc) and we see how completely lame and uneventful seeing those mobs are.

I don't think anyone wants to return to waiting in a pit for 3 hours every day but that issue is easily solvable without turning all of the HNMs into gimp-city. There's nothing wrong with Tiamat not spawning for 3~5 days after he is killed.
If she's up all the time and has a really good drop and you aren't ever able to claim him nothing is going to change.
The capable linkshells will sit there and constantly claim him until they have everything and the drop is worth pennies.
Nature of the beast and with instant repop times the mob will just become pathetic.

The best solution, IMO, is to make every mob in the game a potential place holder for a lot of the future HNMs like Tiamat and Cerb and Odin. Maybe he or she will pop in a desolate corner of the world and go unnoticed for a long time or maybe one day a level 2 will kill a rat outside Ul'dah and there Tiamat will appear.

However, I don't think it kills the game to have one or two Dragon's Aery type places.

What bothers me about the Negative Nancy's in this thread is that I feel like all of the people crying about HNM's and trying to dictate what HNM's should be are also the people who won't ever bother to try to kill them/camp them/etc.

The every kid gets a medal, "if I can't do it I don't want anyone else to be able to" mentality coming from the WoW influx into Final Fantasy is really starting to get irritating. Here's to hoping SE returns to its old ways of not giving a damn what the community thinks and makes the game they want to make.

Open world HNM's or bust.

[Exni]

Open world HNM's ARE and have ALWAYS been fair to all who want to participate.
You're on a server.
An HNM pops on that server.
You try to claim it.
You try to hold it.
You try to kill it.

It's the same for everyone.

Agreed.

I appreciate all the ideas and discussion on different ways to implement HNM, really I do. I'd like to see some of that in XIV. But also, I'd like to see them in the way they were presented in XI too because there was nothing actually wrong with the system. Whether or not you liked the system is up to you.. whether or not you like to compete with other LS's is up to you... whether or not you want to camp for hours is up to you... whether or not you want to attempt to claim is up to you... whether or not you want to get a ToD is up to you... whether or not your in a Linkshell that has a clue what they're doing, also up to you..

Just because you didn't like XI or XI's HNM system doesn't mean there was anything wrong with it. Plently of people loved it obviously (there was always alot of healthy competition on my server) and it never bothered me or my LS mates if we didn't claim Sandworm for 2 weeks straight.. or missed Niddhogg abuncha of times back to back.. Alot of you guys like to complain about XI's HNM and its pretty obvious you never had much experience doing it in the first place. Especially when you go straight to 'no open-world HNMs because of "unfair" claim wars'.. really? I played XI on 360.. and got a claim on EVERY HNM we attempted at some point (multiple times in most cases... although I only ever remember claiming KV and Tiamat once each..but that was likely because I'd usually fall asleep on those windows..). I never got why some people tried to use claim bots anyway.. unless you were just AFK or didn't know the ToD, it was faster to just spam claim at the actual ToD (starting a few seconds b4 it). But, if you actually went out to these 'claim wars' on a regular basis, you'd already know that..

The actual 'war' would begin after the intial group claims... They'd try to hold it with whatever few members they had camping, basically a low-man kite.. while the other groups would watch in suspense watching if their tank(s) go down. If they did, the other groups would start trying to spam claim getting ready for the other group to lose hate. Another group picks it up and then attempts to hold it, meanwhile most of the new groups LS has now shown up and they start buffing up and engage. But then oh shyt!! Mob got turned, spike flail, wipes half the group!!.. Now the other LS are trying to spam claim it when that LS loses hate!! Group 3 picks it up at 50%, already buffed they go in and wail it on down for the "W" and the LOOTS!!! NOW THATS HOW YOU MMO!! Good show for all 3 groups, yet group 3 wins it today. Man I miss having fun in open-world...

[DarthTaru]

Great post.
You and I are cut of the same cloth, Taru

A Tiamat not respawning until 72 hours after it's death doesn't "lead" to anything but the rarity and majesty of the HNM and its drop. That's it. Nobody was "camping" a window that wasn't up and nobody "camped" Tiamat on their main character unless they were really putting in a great effort to get Gaiters. Most of the camping was done by linkshell Alts. When Tia or any other HNM would pop the alarm would sound and the race would be on. It was one of the most fun aspects of XI.

In XIV, my LS and I sack claimed Goblin back before Yoshi P nerfed the existing NM's. Another linkshell was gathered in a huge alliance of 16 and my friend just jogged past them in a subligar and a conehat and took the claim. This really upset them (although they had no reason to feel cheated, they just got beat to the punch) and what followed was the funnest night i've had in this game to date. 4 friends and I (one LS) trying to kill Goblin while 16 from another LS tried to MPK us with mobs. We were unable to Siphon MP because we moved the NM (at that time this was a HUGE challenge to overcome) and all of us just had to be incredibly sharp to overcome everything. Sure, that was only goblin, but it was 5 man goblin, at a time when everyone used 16, while 16 people were trying to kill us and we had no MP.

Most fun in XIV to date... for all of us.

A lot of XI veterans like XIV and have faith in XIV and the direction of XIV but if open world HNMs are not introduced that faith will have been unfounded and we will not be here for the long haul, we SE's most loyal customers.

[Cichy]

Agreed.

I appreciate all the ideas and discussion on different ways to implement HNM, really I do. I'd like to see some of that in XIV. But also, I'd like to see them in the way they were presented in XI too because there was nothing actually wrong with the system. Whether or not you liked the system is up to you.. whether or not you like to compete with other LS's is up to you... whether or not you want to camp for hours is up to you... whether or not you want to attempt to claim is up to you... whether or not you want to get a ToD is up to you... whether or not your in a Linkshell that has a clue what they're doing, also up to you..

Just because you didn't like XI or XI's HNM system doesn't mean there was anything wrong with it. Plently of people loved it obviously (there was always alot of healthy competition on my server) and it never bothered me or my LS mates if we didn't claim Sandworm for 2 weeks straight.. or missed Niddhogg abuncha of times back to back.. Alot of you guys like to complain about XI's HNM and its pretty obvious you never had much experience doing it in the first place. Especially when you go straight to 'no open-world HNMs because of "unfair" claim wars'.. really? I played XI on 360.. and got a claim on EVERY HNM we attempted at some point (multiple times in most cases... although I only ever remember claiming KV and Tiamat once each..but that was likely because I'd usually fall asleep on those windows..). I never got why some people tried to use claim bots anyway.. unless you were just AFK or didn't know the ToD, it was faster to just spam claim at the actual ToD (starting a few seconds b4 it). But, if you actually went out to these 'claim wars' on a regular basis, you'd already know that..

The actual 'war' would begin after the intial group claims... They'd try to hold it with whatever few members they had camping, basically a low-man kite.. while the other groups would watch in suspense watching if their tank(s) go down. If they did, the other groups would start trying to spam claim getting ready for the other group to lose hate. Another group picks it up and then attempts to hold it, meanwhile most of the new groups LS has now shown up and they start buffing up and engage. But then oh shyt!! Mob got turned, spike flail, wipes half the group!!.. Now the other LS are trying to spam claim it when that LS loses hate!! Group 3 picks it up at 50%, already buffed they go in and wail it on down for the "W" and the LOOTS!!! NOW THATS HOW YOU MMO!! Good show for all 3 groups, yet group 3 wins it today. Man I miss having fun in open-world...

At one point my linkshell was making 100 mil a month because we monopolized everything with bots. We had about 50 ppl and claimed 90% of HNMs. Whatever we dint sell we dropped to the ground so that the notion that you can get gear for free did not get around. There were dozens of linkshells like us.
Is this what you want? Because this is what XI was and what XIV will become.
Unlike you I am not delusional and I'm not lying to myself that what we did was majestic or noble. However, this is what that game mechanic created and promoted.
Also, 90% of fights in XI were tank and spank so novelty of them wore very quick.

[Rydin]

At one point my linkshell was making 100 mil a month because we monopolized everything with bots. We had about 50 ppl and claimed 90% of HNMs. Whatever we dint sell we dropped to the ground so that the notion that you can get gear for free did not get around.

I want to be like this ^^^ when I grow up