Highly Notorious Monsters

[Firon]

We don't make up reasons. They're valid, good reasons, and the facts are real facts, not made up.

FFXI's HNM system (again. ONLY HNMs. NOT BCNMS KSNMS ETC!!!!) was terribad. We kept doing it because we wanted the drops badly enough to keep at it, not because it was fun battling cheaters to get the claim on the monster.

BCNMs and the like are a completely seperate topic. I'd love to have those, lots and lots of them. The only thing I'm against is HNMs that are world spawns with long repop timers. Rewards from content should be rare because the content is challenging, not because you have to wait a million years just to get to experience the fight one time.

World spawning HNMs would be tolerable if they spawned frequently enough that you didn't have 100 people packed in a fishbowl all mashing provoke as hard as they can for 2 minutes every 30 minutes. But I'd still rather do BCNM/force pop content.

I know this type of guy he is the guy that calls gm's on players when they get out claimed every time. Belive it or not, not everyone botted in XI if a mob spawned purple that was your pc's fault not the game cause it could not load the monster fast enough, also after they added the 3 second rule before claiming it pretty hard to bot someone out of a claim cause they could not grab said mob w/o everyone else seeing it first.

[Alhanelem]

If you read nothing else, read this: I'd love to have BCNMs and force pop HNMs in the game. That would be great and I want it. Please, do make this. What I DON'T want is world spawn HNMs with long repop timers and a high likelyhood for cheating- in short, everything that was wrong with HNM in FFXI.

Do you have proof everyone botted and cheated tho?

It happens. A lot. You can't tell me it doesn't happen. I didn't say *you* cheated, heck I wasn't even talking to you in this thread until now. That doesn't mean cheating didn't happen, and didn't happen often. That's the first thing anyone says: "Prove it!" There are actually people out there who gloated about botting (and they were the ones that eventually got banned, ah, sweet justice), and there were welll known programs being SOLD on the internet. The bots were there, the kind of people that would want to use them were there, you just put 2 and 2 together. Any other competitive desire should be suffiicently fufilled by who gets what drop within your group.

Again: this doesn't mean that everyone was cheating. But there was enough cheating to impact the game.

We're not talking about bringing the FFXI HNMs in XIV as they were, but creating something new altogether.

That's fine. But many people ARE talking about the old fashioned HNM system. And that's what I'm speaking against. I have nothing whatsoever against a new system that addresses the problems that FFXI had.

Any HNM system that is developed must be built with the possibility of cheating in mind. There are many great ways to implement bosses in the game that don't easily allow for any kind of cheating. World spawn pops with 24~72 hour pop times just aren't one of them.

I don't know how for example Dark Ixion and Sandworm worked in XI, were they bottable despite of popping in different zones? I've assumed SE tried to counter botting with their design.

These were some of the most interesting monsters of their kind, though there were people doing whatever they could to get a claim advantage, such as paying more money to have mules in every zone to more easily locate the NM- but that's not quite as bad as using actual cheats.

You mean you have PvP for your competition needs and you don't need it elsewhere. Other people might prefer other kinds of competition between players and player groups, or like both. Each to their own.

No. Not I / for my, and I. PvP offers more than enough ability to fill anybody's competitive desire. It's the WHOLE REASON PvP exists at all (or rather, will exist). Competing for a claim, and then not playing that day if you lose (if you're not one of the people who can devote their life to the game anyway) is not fun at all. I don't know how anyone can find that fun. If you were having fun, it's because you won claim consistently- odds are it was because your team had a botter.

[Cyonos]

I,m 100% behind the idea of HNM in xiv, let the ppl that want no part of HNM stick to their instanced dungeons that they cling to so adamantly. I liked how bcnm, ksnm, znm, were implemented in xi, I dont how ever like the idea of tokens for drops from a HNM to buy a piece of gear. What i cant even understand is why no one like the idea of competition on HNM or anything for that matter.

Its just my opinion but bring back HNM Xi style and let anyone who wants to participate have at it and those that dont can do w/e it is they want instanced dungeons, primals w/e they fell like doing. Hell bring back bcnm ksnm znm while we are at it. Just cause its HNM doesnt mean that they will be forced to participate in it.

[Alhanelem]

I don't think you actually played FFXI, or WoW. I however, played both.

Yeah, you're funny. I played FFXI since day 1. My account is still active. I played WoW for a few years after it came out (and quit because it was boring as hell and the endgame community was 10x more oppressive than FFXIs was.

If you think that in FFXI, only 1-5% of the community participated in endgame content..

I don't think it, I know it. Because it's a fact- a fact of virtually all MMOs. The VAST MAJORITY of players do NOT end up experieincing such superbosses that we call HNMs.

They are all Notorious Monsters.....

Zeni Notorious Monster
Burning Circle Notorious Monster
Kindred Seal Notorious Monster...

This thread is asking for Highly Notorious Monsters. Not BCNMs and KSNMs. Did you not read the title of this thread????
I'd LOVE to have BCNMs. I would NOT love to have world spawn HNMs.

Define a small amount of people sir. Because I think alot more than a "small" amount of people are interested in HNM's.

You think wrong, my good sir. FFXIV likely has a higher percentage than the average because of how small the playerbase is (and the dedication level of those that currently remain). But it's still far from something everyone wants to participate in or even a majority.

Let's make it big, bold and clear. I'm ONLY, ONLY ONLY ONLY talking about world spawn HNMs. world spawn HNMs does NOT include instanced boss battles (KSNM, BCNM, ENM etc), nor does it include the majority of force pop content. If you can't understand what I'm talking about after this post, you never will and you may as well stop responding because we're going to be talking in circles forever.

[ThePatriarch]

I don't think it, I know it. Because it's a fact- a fact of virtually all MMOs. The VAST MAJORITY of players do NOT end up experieincing such superbosses that we call HNMs.

That's unfortunate for them, but the ones of us who worked hard, and got to that point really enjoyed it! Also, please don't call "facts" without being able to prove them. You have absolutely no idea what the exact range of numbers/percentages of the population were involved with end-game HNM content. Your assumptious numbers, do not equal facts.

Just because some people aren't cut out for it, and like to make up reasons, and also make up facts about how bad the system is that they don't like, is no reason to prohibit the playerbase that loves the content from experiencing it.

And we are not just talking about Open-World HNM content. Yes, the Title is highly notorious monsters, but we have branched out into all aspects of notorious monsters.

I will tell you what I have told the handful of others like you:

If you don't want to camp the HNM's, don't. However, the rest of us will. Hopefully there will be enough content in the post-2.0 FFXIV that you will be able to choose.

[Alhanelem]

Can you honestly tell me that HNM's would hurt FFXIV's chance for future success?

Hurt? No. But their impact on the game as far as attracting new customers and getting people to play and keep playing will be minimal at best.

The number of people that will play HNMs, regardless of how good or bad they are, is not going to be high compared to the total playerbase. Their ability to influence the game as a whole will be limited in either direction.

During Zilart, which primarily was SKY/HNM/Dynamis for endgame, there were a little over 200,000 people subbed (this was late 2004).

Comparitively, FFXIV has around 10-12,000 subscriptions. Seems like they were doing something right in their prior MMO.

You're right- but that "something" that was right was a lot of things, it wasn't just or even mostly HNMs. Please, quit pretending that HNMs were the sole/primary reason that hundreds of thousands of people played FFXI. If that were true, there would have been 1000 people in the dragon's aery every fafnir pop instead of 100-200.

[ThePatriarch]

Hurt? No. But their impact on the game as far as attracting new customers and getting people to play and keep playing will be minimal at best.

The number of people that will play HNMs, regardless of how good or bad they are, is not going to be high compared to the total playerbase. Their ability to influence the game as a whole will be limited in either direction.

Well sir, I think I speak for many here when I say that I am sorry that you feel the way you do. I appreciate your opinions, and hopefully you enjoy your time in FFXIV, regardless of what kind of content is implemented.

Rather than have us compare our opinions for the next couple of pages, I would like to re-direct the thread back to the topic, of which is HNM's and their possible implementation.

I edited the OP with the "Token" system, which would alleviate some issues with low/horrid drop rates, and would cater more towards the "Work=Reward" type system.

Any additional ideas/opinions are welcome.

[Laraul]

FFXI's long re-spawn timers lead to a problem of people negating their real world responsibilities in order to camp a long spawn NM. Hence the desire to claim an NM's would often lead to people not attending work, school, or social activities. This must be avoided with XIV.

[Cyonos]

I never botted in any form but the fact that you are against every bit of these ideas proves that you must have sucked at XI or had no friends. I only did HNM just a brief bit but rl came before it, but i wouldnt dare deprive someone that wants likes or might enjoy it just because i couldnt do it as much as i wanted to. And btw i know bcnm and such were instanced and i loved to do them i never complained about instances. I simply just said let the ppl that want to stay with dungeons stay with them and leave the rest of us alone with for wish for HNM, or would you rather there be Anti instance thread started so you might have a chance to make a real point about anything.

[Cyonos]

Fafnir/Nidhogg Jorgoumand Vrta Serket KB/B Sandworm Ixion, Sky,Sea, Cerb Khimara Hydra and even though you dont count them as HNM Proto Omega/Ultima, Sadly never seen Dyna Lord.