Highly Notorious Monsters

[ThePatriarch]

In the name of all that is good and holy please, please Yoshi-P do not listen to the people that are crying for return of open world HNMs.
It was the worst idea SE ever had, it was a system that drove thousands of people away, it was the reason why people spoke ill of the game.
If Yoshi wants to drive a stake through the heart of this game, this will be it. And the people in this thread will be the hand that drives the stake. They will bot, cheat, mpk, and destroy the community.
I hope you understand that Yoshi.

Yes! Let's listen to the voice of reason here!

Driving a stake through the heart of a game would be not listening to a large mass of people who are calling for the implementation of HNM's. Driving a stake through the heart of a game would be not implementing MORE content that an obvious large amount of players are seemingly interested in!

/e: Before you call for the "No-Like button", I as well wish they had one. Despite that, after reading every page of this thread, and counting the "In-Favor" vs "Against" crowd, I will be generous and say there is a 25% dislike, and 75% like amonst posts in this thread. I think 75% is a pretty good percentage, and would validate the idea that maybe they should look into some form of HNM, care to disagree?

Mr. Yoshi, the above poster claims HNM's drove thousands of people away, despite the fact that the last FF MMO title with HNM's held over 500,000 people in game at one point in time. I have a hard time believing that HNM's killed FFXI, but hey, that's just my opinion!

Furthermore, it becomes even more clear that the above poster failed to read up on the thread before he posted, as per the usual. I think he failed to comprehend the many pages on how we would like to come together and bring HNM's into the game with different aspects of implementation to nullify botting, cheating, and all the negative things that can coincide. People will always find ways to exploit certain aspects of the game, this comes with Open-World, Instanced, Duping etc. This will always happen, and it is up to the developer to change the code and fix the issues, and ban the abusers. Square-Enix should not deny the game certain content for the sole reason of possible exploits, as they can be patched.

[Cichy]

Yes! Let's listen to the voice of reason here!

Driving a stake through the heart of a game would be not listening to a large mass of people who are calling for the implementation of HNM's. Driving a stake through the heart of a game would be not implementing MORE content that an obvious large amount of players are seemingly interested in!

/e: Before you call for the "No-Like button", I as well wish they had one. Despite that, after reading every page of this thread, and counting the "In-Favor" vs "Against" crowd, I will be generous and say there is a 25% dislike, and 75% like amonst posts in this thread. I think 75% is a pretty good percentage, and would validate the idea that maybe they should look into some form of HNM, care to disagree?

Mr. Yoshi, the above poster claims HNM's drove thousands of people away, despite the fact that the last FF MMO title with HNM's held over 500,000 people in game at one point in time. I have a hard time believing that HNM's killed FFXI, but hey, that's just my opinion!

Furthermore, it becomes even more clear that the above poster failed to read up on the thread before he posted, as per the usual. I think he failed to comprehend the many pages on how we would like to come together and bring HNM's into the game with different aspects of implementation to nullify botting, cheating, and all the negative things that can coincide. People will always find ways to exploit certain aspects of the game, this comes with Open-World, Instanced, Duping etc. This will always happen, and it is up to the developer to change the code and fix the issues, and ban the abusers. Square-Enix should not deny the game certain content for the sole reason of possible exploits, as they can be patched.

You are beyond delusional. Where do you even get all this.
Large mass of people? This game has a drop of a bucket of populations that it needs, out of that drop only fraction goes to the forum, out of that fraction only few vote for this dumb idea. I hope the devs realize that.

Alhanelem, pretty much already said most things that are wrong with your logic. There were 500k users at one point because XI was one of the only MMOs out there. And out of that like he said 1-5% ever participated in this snooze/botfest called HNMs. Most people never ever killed even a Fafnir. I've camped HNMs for 6 years, and 90% of the people were same people there. Which was 3-5 linkshells.

People need to get over the notion that claiming a NM makes you a special snowflake. You say you're only asking for something for everyone to do where one the fist page you say Open World NMs + Amazing Gears.
Amazing gear alone will create same type of environment that XI had.
You dont want to compete with anyone, you just want feel like a special snowflake once more.

Content should be based on difficulty and progression and not the best bot people have.
Content like Salvage, ZNMs, Limbus, is way to go. Have people clear something before they can advance and make it increasingly more difficult. Than even though not everyone is able to clear it/get loot, everyone has fair chance at attempting it. And this is the main problem that XI had with HNMs. You can argue all you want but 90% of the population had no chance in hell at even attempting them.

The only way I could ever see open world HNMs be implemented is give them 30min-1h rage timer and 5 min repop.
Even than, if it's amazing gear, you'll have people bot them.

[ThePatriarch]

The only way I could ever see open world HNMs be implemented is give them 30min-1h rage timer and 5 min repop.
Even than, if it's amazing gear, you'll have people bot them.

So you would like to create an open world setting, where all these Huge Monsters respawn in 5 minutes? What would make them unique? It would be boring, worn out content within 2 months and everyone would be back in Ul'dah twiddling their thumbs trying to find something to do.

You can question my logic all you want. Even more you can dish out some petty, immature insults.

You are beyond delusional.

None of that is going to help you here. I didn't make this thread to argue logic styles, I created this thread for people to contribute ideas on how we should implement HNM's. We aren't on BG buddy, mud slinging doesn't get you to far on here. Read through the posts and see how it worked for Sephrick and Peptaru, their arguments were a copy+paste of what you are doing right now.


Rather than contribute, or offer anything to the matter, you come into this thread and make fun of the people, and the idea. I'm sorry that you don't like it. If you are so against it, come up with another thread on why NOT to implement HNM's, lets see how much attention it gets. Then we would have a realistic way of seeing how many people are "for" and how many are "against"

[fusional]

It was the worst idea SE ever had, it was a system that drove thousands of people away, it was the reason why people spoke ill of the game.
If Yoshi wants to drive a stake through the heart of this game, this will be it.

strange then how ffxi was most popular in the prime of zilart HNM, right? strange also how ffxi continues to be more popular than ffxiv, and ffxi players aren't exactly fleeing that game in favor of this one. methinks you're inventing numbers based on your own biases, and your numbers don't exactly add up.

can you explain, though, how having HNM would ruin the game if they still kept instanced content for casuals and naysayers?

[Taika]

Cichy, I see you feel really strongly about this. However, in your post you don't even bother to explain why and how you feel the HNMs ruined FFXI.

You claim it was a system that "drove thousands of people away", and I'm really surprised to hear that, since I've never heard anyone quitting (or deciding not to even try) XI for the HNM system. On the contrary, for many players it seemed to be a system which kept them playing for years and years, and which they chose to use most of their playtime doing.

There were many downsides to the way HNMs were implemented in XI, and all of them have been brought up and discussed in this thread. I don't think anyone wants to bring the system to XIV exactly the way it was in XI, and people are willing to discuss the different possibilities for its implementation in XIV.

The point I'm trying to make here is that it's not really constructive to simply say "NO!" to a complex system which can be implemented in at least hundreds of different ways. Please try to explain what kind of things make open world HNMs undesirable, and maybe even think of ways to avoid those issues.

[Elexia]

Cichy, I see you feel really strongly about this. However, in your post you don't even bother to explain why and how you feel the HNMs ruined FFXI.

Cichy was likely one of those people banned from using the Salvage exploit, those groups of people seem to feel the strongly against FFXI and anything from it, even though Yoshida has proven he's not at all against revisiting XI as seen with even the reuse of NPC names for the same races lol.

FFXI's long re-spawn timers lead to a problem of people negating their real world responsibilities in order to camp a long spawn NM. Hence the desire to claim an NM's would often lead to people not attending work, school, or social activities. This must be avoided with XIV.

Because no other MMORPG in the world caused people to negate RL responsibilities? We've never heard of WoW causing kids to fail in school for example?

[Hirmu]

FFXIV without HNMs is like christmas without cookies: sure you might get lots of nice stuff, but in the end everything loses it's meaning and the joy of living is gone D:

One thing I'd love is to have more dynamic HNMs. Maybe something like in Skyrim where you actually spot a dragon flying above the landscape and then you'd have to follow it around, maybe gather your LS meanwhile and see where it lands. Or there could be a way to get the dragon to land.

Also many people seem to think that gear must always be either better or worse than every other piece. It tells something about the depth of the battle system and character development if it's somehow very difficult to create gear pieces that aren't directly comparable to each other. For example, in FFXI as PLD there were different sets for magic def, DD, fast cast, enmity, HP, sets for tanking as /WAR, /NIN, /RDM etc. and you couldn't say that a piece in my DD set was somehow better than a piece in HP set. Both had their uses.

Now I don't have any level 50s yet and I don't really know about stuff, but if there's only one viable build for each class/job, I'd say that's a case of boring design. The question that should HNMs drop better gear than instances is just, in my opinion, based on a very narrow perspective of what the battle system could, or should, offer.

So basically what I'm trying to ramble about is more diversity, both in enemies and gear and I really really don't see how adding HNMs could in any way be categorically a bad thing.

[Alhanelem]

So you would like to tell everyone that HNM's had absolutely zero effect on the popularity of the game at that point in time?

Yes. Absolutely zero. Nobody bought the game because there were HNMs in it. In fact, nobody who bought the game likely knew what HNMs were. When zilart was out, the game was brand new in north america. It's purely because it was a young game, it was Final Fantasy, and it was an MMO with a real storyline.

HNMs were a part of the game, and they were something that some of the most advanced players in the game enjoyed, but they were not a selling point of the game or a reason why anyone picked the game up and started playing it.

Forced pop Notorious Monsters.

Yes. FORCED POP NMs. Not world spawns. Even then, we didn't look at the box of FFXI and say, "Ohh, there's this place called sky with big scary monsters in it! I'm buying this!"

FFXIV without HNMs is like christmas without cookies:

If you were one of the elite, high end players that played this content, yes. Otherwise, no.

Although the actual fights themselves were fun, what you had to go through to be able to experience them was like cookies with diarrhea poured all over them.

There's a reason why most major bosses in FFXI aren't world spawns anymore.

[ThePatriarch]

Yes. Absolutely zero.

This is you saying that HNM's had no popularity.

HNMs were a part of the game, and they were something that some of the most advanced players in the game enjoyed

This is you nullifying your prior statement. Whether or not you want to admit/believe it, HNM's were very popular. In some cases on the more crowded servers there would be in upwards of 100 at each camp. And you say advanced players... What do you think people aspire to be in MMO's? The greater majority of people who play MMO's would eventually like to get to the "Upper Tier", and slay those massive monsters with friends, or work on finally clearing that instanced dungeon.

Even more, Notorious Monsters are easily one of the biggest parts of FFXI (arguably the biggest). There are so many forms of NM/HNM's, and each and every one of them are liked by a certain crowd.

You had your ground HNM (Ground Kings/21-24hour spawn)

Small time World NM's (leaping lizzy, Valkurm Em, etc)

Forced pop HNM's (sky, sea, etc)

ZNM (Zeni Notorious Monsters)

Instanced HNM's (Nyzul, Assault, Salvage, Dynamis etc)

The fact that you would say that no one had any interest in HNM/NM's, is simply ignorant.

[Alhanelem]

I liked how bcnm, ksnm, znm, were implemented in xi

funny how you complain about instanced content when 2 of these 3 are instanced content and you say you liked them...

ZNM are not HNM (well, until the final tier...), nor are BCNM or KSNMs...

What i cant even understand is why no one like the idea of competition on HNM or anything for that matter.

Because it's NOT FUN. In no small part because it usually leads to some kind of cheating. I do NOT like the idea of going out to kill some HNM, sitting there waiting for 3 hours for it to pop, only to have some linkshell with a bot claim the monster before it even appears on anyone else's screen. How could you find that to be fun unless you were the one doing the botting? Then there was the constant interruptions to other activities- I can't tell you how many times I had planned an activity with some LS members, like a week in advance, only to have it cancelled by the 7th day of fafnir or some other HNM that MIGHT pop "HQ."

If you can't understand why it's not fun, then you were more than likely part of a linkshell that botted or cheated.

Its just my opinion but bring back HNM Xi style

It's not worth their time to develop content that only 100 out of 10-20,000 people will want to play.

Big scary need your wits and a good size group of people to beat bosses are fine. I want more of those. I do NOT want them open world. Force pop or instanced only, unless repop times are low.