Highly Notorious Monsters

[Blackpearlguy]

just make ALL NM's like FATE then everyone can help kill it get tokens if you win then you good to go. group claim gameplay is is old now the groups will just have the rest of the LS healing from the out side is pointless might as well make it a big event when the NM pops. if you get a general thing like the tokens you wont have problems getting stuff done because it will always be worth while to help someone.
.

Other MMO's have tried this (namely Guild Wars 2) and nobody finds it very interesting/fun. If you try it you see its more of a mob scenario rather than ANY strategy involved. I liked the conversation about Dark Ixion and SW, those were really interesting ways to spawn/camp an HNM. I think we're all starting to think the camping part isn't fun- for some of us it is! If the NM wasn't cornered into a small spot on a map it could be really cool to have your LS running around on the hunt.

The other thing is if we had two options one which would be the old-school 21-24 hr camping method, the other a spawned pop like hakutaku/zipacna which you could do once a week. I think this solves both parties problems, and you can get the best of both worlds if you like!

[Kryptic]

Obviously a lot of people hate the idea of HNMs but it's honestly some of the best experiences I ever had in FFXI. This is my outlook on it.

-Make it so that some of the gear you get from HNMs you can get in other places. Example Einharjar in ffxi and HNMs you can get the Adamant Hauberk etc from both.
So people who don't want to sit in an area for 3 hours at a time don't have to they can get the gear other ways. But people who are more dedicated to getting gear
and helping other people out have more of a chance to get the gear because they will go hunt the HNMs as well as do the dungeons. Reward those who put in the time.

-The skill factor, getting the people who know what they are doing, claiming it, setting up within a few seconds and getting in position is also extremely challenging and fun.
A lot of open world events never take a lot of skill, a lot of MMOs that have these you just go in zerg and watch random people die over and over.

-The satisfaction of getting a drop from a monster that spawns once a day is unmatchable. The NMs in FFXIV that spawn every 5 minutes are stupid and the most unrewarding thing
ever. I can see making some low level NMs that spawn every half hour or less but 5 minutes is pointless for higher level gear.

-48-72 hour spawn HNMs were a little to much I can see at least shortening it to 21-24 hours. I enjoyed it, though doesn't matter.

-I understand everyone thinks any time anyone gets claim they immediately botted. The shell I was in didn't bot(which I know you will all try to say I'm lying about)
and we beat most of the botters because they couldn't claim nidhogg with their bot they could only get fafnir. It's not impossible to beat the botters especially
if you get the timing down. People say "it spawned claimed" but after I upgraded my computer this is completely false. I began seeing every HNM unclaimed because my
computer can actually load it fast enough.


-It's an open world large group event which are hard to come by. Gathering an alliance of 12+ people and waiting for a Dragon to spawn is nerve wrecking. After camping HNMs
for 3+years I still got nervous during the windows.

-People always complain about MPK but they fixed that in FFXI by making it so the monster can't hurt other alliances as long as they don't have hate(excluding kings). Just copy this.

-How often are you standing in down waiting for events and crafting or just talking? It allows for more events to take place during "down time" for people who are restless
like me.

-Doing dungeons is great but it does get boring. It's nice to change it up!

A lot of the "hardcore players" want HNMs as well as the casual people who are into big boss battles. Imagine if in FFXI that Fafnir spawned every half hour, everyone would
be running around with ridills. It's what seperates elite players and people who want everything to easy.

-Everyone says use BCNM or KSNM just do them all! That's what made FFXI so good because there was so many things you could do. Why combine things when you can make
a ridiculous amount of content. I know people are gonna cry and complain and say "Oh you used bots you are a liar" and whatever else they want to say well you don't have
to believe me I know we never did. People who drop real money for in-game purposes are sad.


So keep in mind the people who will keep your game alive when everyone jumps ship when blizzard puts out some other garbage expansion, implement HNMs. This is my experience obviously and my opinions so take it for what it's worth.
You can never have enough content! The more gear the better, happy hunting!

[Jeronlmo]

Obviously a lot of people hate the idea of HNMs but it's honestly some of the best experiences I ever had in FFXI. This is my outlook on it.

-Make it so that some of the gear you get from HNMs you can get in other places. Example Einharjar in ffxi and HNMs you can get the Adamant Hauberk etc from both.
So people who don't want to sit in an area for 3 hours at a time don't have to they can get the gear other ways. But people who are more dedicated to getting gear
and helping other people out have more of a chance to get the gear because they will go hunt the HNMs as well as do the dungeons. Reward those who put in the time.

-The skill factor, getting the people who know what they are doing, claiming it, setting up within a few seconds and getting in position is also extremely challenging and fun.
A lot of open world events never take a lot of skill, a lot of MMOs that have these you just go in zerg and watch random people die over and over.

-The satisfaction of getting a drop from a monster that spawns once a day is unmatchable. The NMs in FFXIV that spawn every 5 minutes are stupid and the most unrewarding thing
ever. I can see making some low level NMs that spawn every half hour or less but 5 minutes is pointless for higher level gear.

-48-72 hour spawn HNMs were a little to much I can see at least shortening it to 21-24 hours. I enjoyed it, though doesn't matter.

-I understand everyone thinks any time anyone gets claim they immediately botted. The shell I was in didn't bot(which I know you will all try to say I'm lying about)
and we beat most of the botters because they couldn't claim nidhogg with their bot they could only get fafnir. It's not impossible to beat the botters especially
if you get the timing down. People say "it spawned claimed" but after I upgraded my computer this is completely false. I began seeing every HNM unclaimed because my
computer can actually load it fast enough.


-It's an open world large group event which are hard to come by. Gathering an alliance of 12+ people and waiting for a Dragon to spawn is nerve wrecking. After camping HNMs
for 3+years I still got nervous during the windows.

-People always complain about MPK but they fixed that in FFXI by making it so the monster can't hurt other alliances as long as they don't have hate(excluding kings). Just copy this.

-How often are you standing in down waiting for events and crafting or just talking? It allows for more events to take place during "down time" for people who are restless
like me.

-Doing dungeons is great but it does get boring. It's nice to change it up!

A lot of the "hardcore players" want HNMs as well as the casual people who are into big boss battles. Imagine if in FFXI that Fafnir spawned every half hour, everyone would
be running around with ridills. It's what seperates elite players and people who want everything to easy.

-Everyone says use BCNM or KSNM just do them all! That's what made FFXI so good because there was so many things you could do. Why combine things when you can make
a ridiculous amount of content. I know people are gonna cry and complain and say "Oh you used bots you are a liar" and whatever else they want to say well you don't have
to believe me I know we never did. People who drop real money for in-game purposes are sad.


So keep in mind the people who will keep your game alive when everyone jumps ship when blizzard puts out some other garbage expansion, implement HNMs. This is my experience obviously and my opinions so take it for what it's worth.
You can never have enough content! The more gear the better, happy hunting!

I agree 100%, sadly SE has taken the easy route like every other mmo and decided to not have "Gear Swaps" which kept all these different events/gear useful through 10yrs in FF11, just like making servers regional (which you can argue all you want, they did) makes servers only active on prime-times, leads to large events not taking place during off times of the day due to the lack of people and a general slower progression (everything "modern" mmo's do lead to less actual thought/planning behind gear/events/design).

Reguardless of them bringing HNM's back, you know they will mess it up, were going to have 5min respawns or no claiming enabled with a common loot pool between 100 people, w/e they do, believe it will be broken.

Edit: I just see what 11 had and I see it as a package deal, you cannot take half of what it had and expect it to work, HNM's having 1-3 day+ respawns worked in FF11 because good gear didnt just die, it lasted forever, if gear is that hard to get and replaced every 1-2yrs, people will always complain. You need gear swaps to keep the gear relevant.

For the love of god do not start saying im advocating for gear swaps, the battle to not have a broken game is already lost, that convo does not belong here, I am simply saying you cannot have one without the other.

[Kryptic]

I agree 100%, sadly SE has taken the easy route like every other mmo and decided to not have "Gear Swaps" which kept all these different events/gear useful through 10yrs in FF11, just like making servers regional (which you can argue all you want, they did) makes servers only active on prime-times, leads to large events not taking place during off times of the day due to the lack of people and a general slower progression (everything "modern" mmo's do lead to less actual thought/planning behind gear/events/design).

Reguardless of them bringing HNM's back, you know they will mess it up, were going to have 5min respawns or no claiming enabled with a common loot pool between 100 people, w/e they do, believe it will be broken.

Edit: I just see what 11 had and I see it as a package deal, you cannot take half of what it had and expect it to work, HNM's having 1-3 day+ respawns worked in FF11 because good gear didnt just die, it lasted forever, if gear is that hard to get and replaced every 1-2yrs, people will always complain. You need gear swaps to keep the gear relevant.

For the love of god do not start saying im advocating for gear swaps, the battle to not have a broken game is already lost, that convo does not belong here, I am simply saying you cannot have one without the other.

We can only hope they don't mess it up. Reward the people who are willing to spend 3 hours in an area for epic gear. The people who don't give them an alternative to get some of the same gear somewhere else. Make exclusive gear for each monster and make gear swaps possible so every piece of gear is relevant and has a purpose. Everyone running around in the same gear and sets suck.

[Xatsh]

We can only hope they don't mess it up. Reward the people who are willing to spend 3 hours in an area for epic gear. The people who don't give them an alternative to get some of the same gear somewhere else. Make exclusive gear for each monster and make gear swaps possible so every piece of gear is relevant and has a purpose. Everyone running around in the same gear and sets suck.

It all depends on how SE wants to do it. Gear and Content getting negating is one of the largest negatives in WoW and the Clones. It is why there is always a shortage of content shortly after a new expansion is launched in almost every mmo since WoW's launch.

If there is a Top gear set, meaning say if you are BLM this set is always the best. Then any form of good endgame is out the window, but this is a whole nother battle that would be fought against the people who like content negation which seems to be the majority of westerners.

XI's rich and insanely large endgame worked because everything from Zilart through WoTG had a drop that was best in slot for something. It kept everything valid and gave you over 200hrs of endgame if you did everything in procession just once. Which if you do it enough to get every piece of gear you need it can easily add up to 30,000-40,000+ hrs of playtime. Which is a really good thing. This adds endless life to the mmo. Something no other mmo besides EQ, XI, and Linage have been able to do. It is easily the biggest strength of the old school mmos that was lost in the modern era. The mmo lost their never ending status when content was getting replaced. People expect mmos to be beatable now days, which is the saddest thing and genre breaking element of new mmos.

In a good mmo content is not fully clearable before more content is added. So every patch more and more and more stuff to do. The work you do to get the gear is not wasted because when you get it, that piece will be good for 5-6 more years.

[Jeronlmo]

We can only hope they don't mess it up. Reward the people who are willing to spend 3 hours in an area for epic gear. The people who don't give them an alternative to get some of the same gear somewhere else. Make exclusive gear for each monster and make gear swaps possible so every piece of gear is relevant and has a purpose. Everyone running around in the same gear and sets suck.

Fact is, the game is already made, an in Yoshi's words, its based on wow, even though i loved HNM's/long cooldowns and gear swaps from 11, you cannot take half of what worked in 11 and throw it into wow and expect it to still work.
Gear Swaps are not in the game and likely will never be, I knew people in FF11 who waited 4yrs never missing a dynamis run for a -1 rdm hat because they were so rare, if content is replaced every 1-2yrs, will you still do the event? The same can be said for HNM's, would you wait 4yrs for an E.body knowing that halfway through its going to be worthless?

If HNM's were exactly what they were in 11, it simply would not work, it cant. The fact that content will be replaced every 1-2yrs guarantees there will be short respawns, high drop rates, and in general gimpy content.

Again, I am not advocating for any of these old discussions, the game will be as broken as any other current mmo full of instant gratification content for 12yr olds, im simply saying your ideas are sadly flawed.

[Takeshi_Eiketsu]

I am adding my two cents because I matter.

First, I am not opposed to HNMs...but I am bothered by OPs complete one sided coverage of the topic...quoting people who help his case and stating those that disagree are mere "nay-sayers".

Anyway, I would like to see HNMs too BUT not the way so many others do...for example:

DO NOT give ANY NM, be it HNM or otherwise, a spawn time greater than an hour. This is ridiculous, and a time sink method of an archaic age of MMOs. Even when I had all the time in the world to devote to FFXI back in the day, I hated. It is competitive...but I call it anxiety driven. I do no play a game to stress out...that is counter productive.

I say Soloable NMs 5-15 minute spawn (if they are timer based), and HNMs get 30mins-1hr (If they are time based.)

DO add interesting pop scenarios, Id like to see monsters spawn only at night, or when raining, or at a full moon/dark moon, etc etc etc. This would include item pops, such as pouring pheromones on a stone, etc.

DO give members tokens for participation that can be traded in to an NPC for the NMs drops...so people like me (who aren't a HNM LS creator, or co-creator) can get the items too, without being a abused for manpower.

[Jeronlmo]

I am adding my two cents because I matter.

First, I am not opposed to HNMs...but I am bothered by OPs complete one sided coverage of the topic...quoting people who help his case and stating those that disagree are mere "nay-sayers".

Anyway, I would like to see HNMs too BUT not the way so many others do...for example:

DO NOT give ANY NM, be it HNM or otherwise, a spawn time greater than an hour. This is ridiculous, and a time sink method of an archaic age of MMOs. Even when I had all the time in the world to devote to FFXI back in the day, I hated. It is competitive...but I call it anxiety driven. I do no play a game to stress out...that is counter productive.

I say Soloable NMs 5-15 minute spawn (if they are timer based), and HNMs get 30mins-1hr (If they are time based.)

DO add interesting pop scenarios, Id like to see monsters spawn only at night, or when raining, or at a full moon/dark moon, etc etc etc. This would include item pops, such as pouring pheromones on a stone, etc.

DO give members tokens for participation that can be traded in to an NPC for the NMs drops...so people like me (who aren't a HNM LS creator, or co-creator) can get the items too, without being a abused for manpower.

For the 5th time, you did not have to do HNM's to get HNM gear, you simply did not have to, Einherjar was an option, it had all of HNM's drops + 2-3x more abj's.

You only want soloable NM's to kill and do not want a ls... its called a RPG, go try it.

[Takeshi_Eiketsu]

For the 5th time, you did not have to do HNM's to get HNM gear, you simply did not have to, Einherjar was an option, it had all of HNM's drops + 2-3x more abj's.

You only want soloable NM's to kill and do not want a ls... its called a RPG, go try it.

umadbro? cause no where in my post did I say, I wanted soloable NMs (yes I want them, but I also want the ones that require groups, hence why I differentiated the two in my post.

[Xatsh]

I am adding my two cents because I matter.

First, I am not opposed to HNMs...but I am bothered by OPs complete one sided coverage of the topic...quoting people who help his case and stating those that disagree are mere "nay-sayers".

Anyway, I would like to see HNMs too BUT not the way so many others do...for example:

DO NOT give ANY NM, be it HNM or otherwise, a spawn time greater than an hour. This is ridiculous, and a time sink method of an archaic age of MMOs. Even when I had all the time in the world to devote to FFXI back in the day, I hated. It is competitive...but I call it anxiety driven. I do no play a game to stress out...that is counter productive.

I say Soloable NMs 5-15 minute spawn (if they are timer based), and HNMs get 30mins-1hr (If they are time based.)

DO add interesting pop scenarios, Id like to see monsters spawn only at night, or when raining, or at a full moon/dark moon, etc etc etc. This would include item pops, such as pouring pheromones on a stone, etc.

DO give members tokens for participation that can be traded in to an NPC for the NMs drops...so people like me (who aren't a HNM LS creator, or co-creator) can get the items too, without being a abused for manpower.

I am going to make 3 comments.

1) if it is a 1hr spawn the drop rate is going to have to be abysmal. 1 hr spawn = 5% drop rate. 1 day spawn = 100% drop rate. If this is not the case the content will be finished in 1-2 weeks after release. Will just be way way too easy to get everything. As others said if peopel do not like hnms, DO NOT DO THEM. If se makes it like XI you do not have to get the gear. Going to emphasise this since people seem to not understand, in XI you did not have to do hnms to get the hnm drops there were other methods.

2) For hnms tokens are horrible system unless the token are so restrictive it will take along time to get anything. The last thing we need is a gear give away. As for having to be a leader to get gear... you were a member of a really garage guild. In the end if you are in a guild where the leaders put themselves first on lotting, you are the fool for being in it. It is a failure of leadership if this is case and foolishness of the player to remain in that guild. Most well run guilds this is not the case.

3) the unique spawn conditions I am with you 100%