Highly Notorious Monsters

[Peptaru]

If you extend the pop area you'll have the speed hackers winnin claim, and bot or no there's going to be mpk unless they alter the current system or severely limit where the mobs appear at. With the way XIV is set up I personally take no issue with HNMs being treated like leve mobs. Sorry spectators, it is someone else's mob. you can look, but don't touch. Make them hard, make them strategic, make them something that hacks/bots/mpk/assanine behavior can't interfere with. Inviting that element into a game that doesn't have to put up with it now seems very dangerous.

Edit: I see people talkin about a need/greed system, but everyone just clicks need anyway if they want something. i don't believe it would help in this particular subject.

[ArnoMorley]

If you extend the pop area you'll have the speed hackers winnin claim, and bot or no there's going to be mpk unless they alter the current system or severely limit where the mobs appear at. With the way XIV is set up I personally take no issue with HNMs being treated like leve mobs. Sorry spectators, it is someone else's mob. you can look, but don't touch. Make them hard, make them strategic, make them something that hacks/bots/mpk/assanine behavior can't interfere with. Inviting that element into a game that doesn't have to put up with it now seems very dangerous.

Edit: I see people talkin about a need/greed system, but everyone just clicks need anyway if they want something. i don't believe it would help in this particular subject.

You seem to forget that hackers and botters get banned. Especially speed hackers, you know how easy it is to detect speed hacking? And even if the game was littered with them, so what? It would still be a much better system than we have in place.

What the casual gamers ask for is essentially the same as somebody on welfare wanting a big house and a Ferrari. Not everybody else's fault if you can't contribute enough to society to earn them, on what planet do you think you're entitled to the same stuff as somebody who is willing to go earn them?

I also say lmao at the idea of HNMs just dropping trophies. Here's a better idea, how about instanced dungeons dropping trophies? The casual gamers are all casual anyway, what do they need good stuff for? Hard core gamers seem to the be the only ones actually willing to do shit that involves breaking a sweat, so I think we're the ones that need good gear.

[Peptaru]

I think titles fall under "stuff of that nature" Patriarch. I like people who are in it for the thrill of the hunt, I don't enjoy the company of people who just want uber drops to lord it over people who haven't gotten it yet. You can do that with new gear pieces from instances without changing the system. If HNM are implemented I pray they can be camped for fun, for bragging rights, not brought back for "Uber drop are belong to me and my LS, u gtfo!" type play.

If you introdue HNM with super drops, you'll still go back to doing nothing when you have those drops... how's that different from trophies? As for money drops, that just gets an "lol" because gil is far from relevant or hard to come by in XIV.

Edit: Arno you always post things in a terrible way that you seem to be proud of. You're just a troll who thinks he's hot stuff. You're not the best player ever made, and hardcore gamers/elite gamers don't talk like you do. I think people with low self-esteem who need validation that they're awesome, like they -think- they are, post like you do. Credit to people who support the old HNM ideas but can post like adults. You, however, are everything that makes "casual" players view the "hardcores" as just jerks.

[ThePatriarch]

I think titles fall under "stuff of that nature" Patriarch. I like people who are in it for the thrill of the hunt, I don't enjoy the company of people who just want uber drops to lord it over people who haven't gotten it yet. You can do that with new gear pieces from instances without changing the system. If HNM are implemented I pray they can be camped for fun, for bragging rights, not brought back for "Uber drop are belong to me and my LS, u gtfo!" type play.

If you introdue HNM with super drops, you'll still go back to doing nothing when you have those drops... how's that different from trophies? As for money drops, that just gets an "lol" because gil is far from relevant or hard to come by in XIV.

Alright, I can see where you are coming from. Lets level here.

Alot of the super drops from FFXI weren't trophies, they all had many, many uses. I'm going to make a short list.

Ebody
Abody
Defending Ring
Nlegs
Ridill (had great uses, and it was fun to play with!)
Kirin's Osode
Hauteclaire
Black Belt (from multiple HNM's)

These weren't Trophy Items. They were such great bonuses to many good people. And my list contains 8 items out of hundreds.

And when you refer to "going back to doing nothing after you get those drops", if the system implemented is anything remotely near that of FFXI's, you won't obtain all of those items within a year, most likely 2. You always have something to look forward to.

And just because some people have alot of gil saved up (I'm guilty) is no logical reason to not give NM's valuable drops. That's like saying "everyone in america has a car, lets stop building cars"

[Peptaru]

The HNM drops like ridill and black belt were coveted by people who didn't even need them. I used to camp that stuff, too. How many people, though, who would make an effort to show up with their shell, did make an honest effort to try to claim, had at least enough skill to kill the mob (even if it didn't look good to spectators), would have danced for joy to finally get an item that they've been chasing for years.... and never got a single shot at killing something. A system where everyone who makes the effort ends up getting rewarded would be acceptable to most, I'd guess. No, I can't speak for everyone, but I would think that'd be acceptable no?

There were LS's that showed up to HNMs daily and rarely, if ever, got claim over other groups. Was Group A making less of an effort than Group B? Nope! One just botted, or claimed faster due to delay or so on. Group A loses claim to Group B 150 times in one year, Group B has tons of items from this particular NM now and still camps it cuz not ALL of their members have what they want, though most have at least some stuff. Group A who is also there every day, has nothing... Is all their effort meaningless?

Yes, competition is fine, but imbalances like this can't exist without animosity, even so far as hatred, for the Group B groups that Group A is going to run into. "They should learn to claim better" as I'm sure someone will be thinking is just an assanine statement imho, because its alot of the same people who say "we get stuff cuz we make the effort".... they made the effort too and got nothing. I just don't want to see the community spiraling down in such glaring ways when it can be avoided.

TL;DR? TTB go read it!

[ThePatriarch]

The HNM drops like ridill and black belt were coveted by people who didn't even need them. I used to camp that stuff, too. How many people, though, who would make an effort to show up with their shell, did make an honest effort to try to claim, had at least enough skill to kill the mob (even if it didn't look good to spectators), would have danced for joy to finally get an item that they've been chasing for years.... and never got a single shot at killing something. A system where everyone who makes the effort ends up getting rewarded would be acceptable to most, I'd guess. No, I can't speak for everyone, but I would think that'd be acceptable no?

There were LS's that showed up to HNMs daily and rarely, if ever, got claim over other groups. Was Group A making less of an effort than Group B? Nope! One just botted, or claimed faster due to delay or so on. Group A loses claim to Group B 150 times in one year, Group B has tons of items from this particular NM now and still camps it cuz not ALL of their members have what they want, though most have at least some stuff. Group A who is also there every day, has nothing... Is all their effort meaningless?

Yes, competition is fine, but imbalances like this can't exist without animosity, even so far as hatred, for the Group B groups that Group A is going to run into. "They should learn to claim better" as I'm sure someone will be thinking is just an assanine statement imho, because its alot of the same people who say "we get stuff cuz we make the effort".... they made the effort too and got nothing. I just don't want to see the community spiraling down in such glaring ways when it can be avoided.

TL;DR? TTB go read it!

My linkshell rewarded members based upon their participation in all events. The more you assisted the linkshell, the more points you got, the more gear you obtained.

The more you put in, the more you get. That's life.

With competition comes animosity, you are correct. If you want a video game without feuds, I don't know what to tell you. We could possibly work on an MMO called HappyVille....

There are going to be elitist jerks even if FFXIV only has instanced content. I think, at the very least just off the interest in this thread alone, that HNM's would be a good addition to the game.

And we know the following:

No one wants to camp (Lets make a single window, and several pops per day so that one time zone can;t monopolize)

Enhance the Spawn Zone (Make botting worthless)

Great Drops (To match instanced drops/crafted items)

But I'd like to go further than just our free roaming HNM's that we want so badly. Lets even the playing grounds. How about some force pop HNM/NM's?

How about some Shikigami weapon type NM's? (unique spawn)

As much as I/many others want HNM's lets discuss further ways to make HNM's fall under more than one category.

[Firon]

My linkshell rewarded members based upon their participation in all events. The more you assisted the linkshell, the more points you got, the more gear you obtained.

The more you put in, the more you get. That's life.

With competition comes animosity, you are correct. If you want a video game without feuds, I don't know what to tell you. We could possibly work on an MMO called HappyVille....

There are going to be elitist jerks even if FFXIV only has instanced content. I think, at the very least just off the interest in this thread alone, that HNM's would be a good addition to the game.

And we know the following:

No one wants to camp (Lets make a single window, and several pops per day so that one time zone can;t monopolize)

Enhance the Spawn Zone (Make botting worthless)

Great Drops (To match instanced drops/crafted items)

But I'd like to go further than just our free roaming HNM's that we want so badly. Lets even the playing grounds. How about some force pop HNM/NM's?

How about some Shikigami weapon type NM's? (unique spawn)

As much as I/many others want HNM's lets discuss further ways to make HNM's fall under more than one category.

I agree with you i used ps2 in xi 90% of the time and i would claim mobs all the time and i got called botter and all of the above had to talk to multi gm's cause ppl like peptaru always jumped the gun that someone was a bot when they did not get claim.

[Peptaru]

I agree with you i used ps2 in xi 90% of the time and i would claim mobs all the time and i got called botter and all of the above had to talk to multi gm's cause ppl like peptaru always jumped the gun that someone was a bot when they did not get claim.

I never reported anyone for being a botter, even the people who admitted to botting. I never whined cuz I didn't get claim. Is everyone so callous to people who couldn't claim, though? I'm as much an asshole as the next guy, but even I have some empathy in this situation.

If people camp every day they make just as much effort as the people who camp every day and actually get claim, this is just the campers, this doesn't even involve the casuals in this equation. Campers putting in the same effort are rewarded differently. <~ (that's the patriarch post above you Firon)

[ThePatriarch]

I never reported anyone for being a botter, even the people who admitted to botting. I never whined cuz I didn't get claim. Is everyone so callous to people who couldn't claim, though? I'm as much an asshole as the next guy, but even I have some empathy in this situation.

If people camp every day they make just as much effort as the people who camp every day and actually get claim, this is just the campers, this doesn't even involve the casuals in this equation. Campers putting in the same effort are rewarded differently. <~ (that's the patriarch post above you Firon)

Risk/Reward.

I like knowing that nothing is for sure. It creates excitement, and a wonderful feeling of accomplishment when you finally obtain that elusive item from x-hnm.

And I gave points for camping, assuming you were verified to be awake, even if we didn't claim. But this is something I don't want to have to do in FFXIV because I hope to have HNM's with tiny windows!

[ArnoMorley]

The HNM drops like ridill and black belt were coveted by people who didn't even need them. I used to camp that stuff, too. How many people, though, who would make an effort to show up with their shell, did make an honest effort to try to claim, had at least enough skill to kill the mob (even if it didn't look good to spectators), would have danced for joy to finally get an item that they've been chasing for years.... and never got a single shot at killing something. A system where everyone who makes the effort ends up getting rewarded would be acceptable to most, I'd guess. No, I can't speak for everyone, but I would think that'd be acceptable no?

There were LS's that showed up to HNMs daily and rarely, if ever, got claim over other groups. Was Group A making less of an effort than Group B? Nope! One just botted, or claimed faster due to delay or so on. Group A loses claim to Group B 150 times in one year, Group B has tons of items from this particular NM now and still camps it cuz not ALL of their members have what they want, though most have at least some stuff. Group A who is also there every day, has nothing... Is all their effort meaningless?

Yes, competition is fine, but imbalances like this can't exist without animosity, even so far as hatred, for the Group B groups that Group A is going to run into. "They should learn to claim better" as I'm sure someone will be thinking is just an assanine statement imho, because its alot of the same people who say "we get stuff cuz we make the effort".... they made the effort too and got nothing. I just don't want to see the community spiraling down in such glaring ways when it can be avoided.

TL;DR? TTB go read it!

You're greatly exaggerating the flaws of the system. And so what if you never got something, I never got a relic weapon doesn't mean I wish they hadn't existed. It was always something to strive for though.

I mean so what if you never get one of those top items, but if you do get one then you can't put a price on the pride in having it. If everybody else has one to there's no point in having it. Who would drive a Lamborghini if everybody else had one? Would having one feel the same? No

Luck based / Competition based systems were good for XI. If you didn't like them you still had other things to do...

So what if it brings a little drama, FFXIV's only drama is about how much a let down it's been. I'd rather fight with other groups over hnms and gear than to not have anything worth fighting about. May complain about how it brings out of the worst of people's nature, at least it brought people out...