Highly Notorious Monsters

[ArnoMorley]

A lot of the anti hnm / competition attitudes im seeing are exactly one of the biggest contributers to 1.0 failing. This idea that hard core gamers have to punished at every aspect of the game has got to stop. The hard core players should be superior to the casual gamers, we shouldn't be knocked down to their level or have our content taken away because of other people.

Biggest gripe I can recall is the fatigue system, hard core players wanted to level up for long periods of time, we weren't allowed to do this because the casual gamers would be out leveled. Well that's the way it should be, if you can't level as much you don't deserve to be on our level.


Sephrick acts like he's in the majority, I don't see that here, this thread seems split down the middle. If it's split down the middle of a game where the hard core gamers have quit and have only casual players left that should tell you something.

Many of the game's failures are because of casual players wanting to be on equal ground with other players. It's why we had no AH, some idiots wanted a barter system because apparently they couldn't handle XI's AH. The way nms are now is another failure because of those people.


SE should have realized their user base was full of hard core players, instead they turned on us and look where it got them.

[Peptaru]

I'm better than all y'all!

I enjoy hardcore content and I play.... a lot. Your attitude does nothing except allow you to let off steam. Try making calm and rational posts that express a point of view instead of whatever the hell this rant was, I read it and regardless of my opinions, you're wrong just for the way you said all that.

Clydey may have differeing opinions than some people on some subjects but at least he tries to have conversations to relay his points. Some points I agree with him, others we have very differing opinions.

+1 Clydey.
-10 raving lunatic.

[Sephrick]

A lot of the anti hnm / competition attitudes im seeing are exactly one of the biggest contributers to 1.0 failing. This idea that hard core gamers have to punished at every aspect of the game has got to stop. The hard core players should be superior to the casual gamers, we shouldn't be knocked down to their level or have our content taken away because of other people.

The biggest factor in the failed release was that the game was forced onto store shelves before it was anywhere near completion.

Biggest gripe I can recall is the fatigue system, hard core players wanted to level up for long periods of time, we weren't allowed to do this because the casual gamers would be out leveled. Well that's the way it should be, if you can't level as much you don't deserve to be on our level.

Who knows what the original team had in mind when it came to the fatigue system. Many of us in beta didn't even notice it until they ramped up exp gains to make us hit it.

And let's also be honest about the effectiveness of fatigue. It didn't stop anyone or slow down anyone. Especially the hardcore levelers.

Sephrick acts like he's in the majority, I don't see that here, this thread seems split down the middle. If it's split down the middle of a game where the hard core gamers have quit and have only casual players left that should tell you something.

In the matter of instance vs open world, the only true data we have is the player's poll.

There's no way any thread is representative of the general population. Not everyone comes on these forums. Many just play the game and browse lodestone occasionally.

Many of the game's failures are because of casual players wanting to be on equal ground with other players. It's why we had no AH, some idiots wanted a barter system because apparently they couldn't handle XI's AH. The way nms are now is another failure because of those people.

XIV's server structure couldn't handle an Auction House, not the players. That you suggest that the original design of the Market Wards was in any way casual friendly is a joke.

Not liking the current list of NMs and their pop conditions is your own personal taste. That doesn't make it a failure. Especially now that those drops can be redeemed for company seals there's plenty of reason to camp them all day.

Look at that, a reason to compete over open world NMs more than once. Who'da thunk. But they don't give "ZOMG EPIC HELMET OF EPEEN +1" so it's not enough, right?

SE should have realized their user base was full of hard core players, instead they turned on us and look where it got them.

Again, XIV's current situation is one caused by rushing an unfinished product to market. Not one section of the player base or another.

[Antipika]

A lot of the anti hnm / competition attitudes im seeing are exactly one of the biggest contributers to 1.0 failing. This idea that hard core gamers have to punished at every aspect of the game has got to stop. The hard core players should be superior to the casual gamers, we shouldn't be knocked down to their level or have our content taken away because of other people.

Biggest gripe I can recall is the fatigue system, hard core players wanted to level up for long periods of time, we weren't allowed to do this because the casual gamers would be out leveled. Well that's the way it should be, if you can't level as much you don't deserve to be on our level.


Sephrick acts like he's in the majority, I don't see that here, this thread seems split down the middle. If it's split down the middle of a game where the hard core gamers have quit and have only casual players left that should tell you something.

Many of the game's failures are because of casual players wanting to be on equal ground with other players. It's why we had no AH, some idiots wanted a barter system because apparently they couldn't handle XI's AH. The way nms are now is another failure because of those people.


SE should have realized their user base was full of hard core players, instead they turned on us and look where it got them.

I'll give you a protip; there are more casual players out there than hardcore players. If you check all successful AAA titles, there are more content for casual players than HCG there. Just deal with it. XI era is over, no one is willing to camp a stupid NM for 3h, and then to lose the claim against a LS botting...

And even if you get the claim, then you need to drop the item you want (or even try and kill the nm properly without getting MPK'd by a competing LS).

Competition is fine, but shouldn't be frontal like that and rather be in instances/raids.

Make raids that are so hard that only HCG will be able to fully clear them within a month, while casual may need to wait the next patch in order to clear it. That's how content have to be designed. I agree with the fact that a HCG should be rewarded more than a casual player, but frontal competition in a PvE environment is just pointless and lead to what we all know. Use of third party tools/cheats, griefing, etc.

I remember firsts Rift raids/T2 dungeons being so hard that casuals couldn't simply clear them and PUG would just fail everything. It took several patches and nerf for an average player to be able to access certain piece of gear. On my shards for example, we were only THREE guilds being able to clear latest content, and we were competing for shard's first. We all had a sense of competition "Oh Guild XXXX managed to beat Boss XXX yesterday! Damn we're late, we need to try and get that and the next boss down before they do..." etc.

So people still compete, HCG gets way superior loots than casuals. No frontal attacks, no grief, no insults/drama while people camp, no use of tools to get a direct advantage over others.

[fusional]

I'll give you a protip; there are more casual players out there than hardcore players.

and i'll give you one. there's a much higher likelihood that a hardcore player will stay subscribed 12 months a year and play almost every day for several years. hardcores aren't the ones subbing for a couple months then unsubbing for several more then coming back again for a couple. they're also not the ones subbing throughout the year but only playing once or twice a week.

casuals form a larger percentage and contribute more cash to the developers' pockets overall, but they're not what holds a game together for years. and that is why you need content which appeals to everyone- and especially your hardcore base.

you think EQ existed for so many years thanks to casuals? ffxi? no. that's entirely unrealistic.

so, yeah, even if they have greater numbers and even though you definitely need to have content for them, does that mean that all content or even most content should be targeted toward them? considering they experience less of the game than a hardcore player (on average) to begin with, that's just completely illogical.

we have casual content. devs ought to add more casual content over time. but we don't have any real hardcore content.

so you do the math.

[Jinko]

A lot of the anti hnm / competition attitudes im seeing are exactly one of the biggest contributers to 1.0 failing.

Keep telling yourself that because we all know thats not the truth.

I won't bother explaining what was the case of its failure because I'm pretty sure you know as well as the rest of us that the game was a stinking turd when first released.

Sephrick acts like he's in the majority, I don't see that here, this thread seems split down the middle. If it's split down the middle of a game where the hard core gamers have quit and have only casual players left that should tell you something.

How have all the hardcore players quit, you would have to be pretty hardcore to stick around on this game if you ask me, there seem to be plenty of "I wish this was FF11" threads also, which suggests to me there are still plenty of hardcore playing this game.

Many of the game's failures are because of casual players wanting to be on equal ground with other players. It's why we had no AH, some idiots wanted a barter system because apparently they couldn't handle XI's AH. The way nms are now is another failure because of those people.

What the what !!

We weren't even asked what market system we wanted, so lets not fool ourself like any of us made or had the choice.

The idiot who wanted the barter system was Tanaka for what its worth.

SE should have realized their user base was full of hard core players, instead they turned on us and look where it got them.

Yea because the millions of people who buy offline Final Fantasy games are all hardcore.

[ArnoMorley]

Keep telling yourself that because we all know thats not the truth.

I won't bother explaining what was the case of its failure because I'm pretty sure you know as well as the rest of us that the game was a stinking turd when first released.



How have all the hardcore players quit, you would have to be pretty hardcore to stick around on this game if you ask me, there seem to be plenty of "I wish this was FF11" threads also, which suggests to me there are still plenty of hardcore playing this game.



What the what !!

We weren't even asked what market system we wanted, so lets not fool ourself like any of us made or had the choice.

The idiot who wanted the barter system was Tanaka for what its worth.



Yea because the millions of people who buy offline Final Fantasy games are all hardcore.

The barter system was a fan idea, I recall it being a thread on one of their sites asking for feedback while XIV was still in development, it got a lot of support and then there it is.

@Antipika
It's sad to see, but XI had a huge hardcore base that shouldn't be ignored. My question is who are the subscribers for those top games? WoW is like 90% american, I've said many times they aren't going to go for a jrpg even if it's a better game. It's like expecting a 360 game to sell big in japan. And even if it did have appeal, you can't out do a game that earns 1 billion+ a year, that's like trying to take over microsoft.

If they have 1,000,000mil+ casual japense gamers they can lure in that's one thing but I don't see it. Just because they sell 6 million copies for XIII doesn't mean they'll get close to that for an online title that requires a subscription.

[Peptaru]

@ fusional: SE is a business, if the casuals are contributing more money that the hardcores.... while I don't want it to happen, i can VERY EASILY guess which direction content will continue heading. $ = $ = $ = $ and all that $ > desire for hardcore content.

My guess is they'll add some hardcore stuff after they're back in the black.

[fusional]

that's fine. and all the hardcores will leave the game for tera or gw2 or back to WoW or whatever and the game will die. again.

[Sephrick]

that's fine. and all the hardcores will leave the game for tera or gw2 or back to WoW or whatever and the game will die. again.

So the hardcore players will leave for a fully instanced game or WoW which is turning into Pokemon meets Farmville? Ok.