Highly Notorious Monsters

[ThePatriarch]

I'm down with the idea of having 24 hour type HNMs being force spawn from items farmed from normal monsters. I remember this idea being passed around the player base of ffxi as a fix at the time. That, or 12 hour spawn with a 15-30 minute window. If you take out the 3 hour camp, which was really pretty ridiculous, and double the spawns per day to suit more time zones, I don't think there would be the same problem. You would keep the value of the claim with less frustration of losing it. Maybe even as low as a 6 or 8 hour respawn.

NMs need to hold some amount of value. Having them spawn like normal mobs really saps the fun out of them. It also removes inherent value from the items they drop. God forbid actually having to /try/ to get that item you want.

It's the difference between being handed something and having to work for it. Which, in the end, is more satisfying?

But people want easy-mode, no competition syle FFXIV where they can go into the same instanced raid as many times in a day that they want, so that they can be 5/5 on all new gear sets in 1 day for their entire PT.

Open World NM's should have some great drops. Not only that the drops should not be equipped on every player walking around Ul'dah. These items should be rare, and inspire people to get them.

I think the general agreement is that respawn timers need to be shorter, much much shorter. I think every 8 hours, with maybe a 30 minute window would be ideal. Regardless, this would still instill that certain feeling of accomplishment when you finally see that item you have been after for weeks in the loot pool.

Do away with this 5/5 gear in 6 hours crap, bring back a challenge.

[Sephrick]

But people want easy-mode, no competition syle FFXIV where they can go into the same instanced raid as many times in a day that they want, so that they can be 5/5 on all new gear sets in 1 day for their entire PT.

Open World NM's should have some great drops. Not only that the drops should not be equipped on every player walking around Ul'dah. These items should be rare, and inspire people to get them.

I think the general agreement is that respawn timers need to be shorter, much much shorter. I think every 8 hours, with maybe a 30 minute window would be ideal. Regardless, this would still instill that certain feeling of accomplishment when you finally see that item you have been after for weeks in the loot pool.

Do away with this 5/5 gear in 6 hours crap, bring back a challenge.

Show me anyone who had a full Darklight set 24 hours after release. I doubt anyone even has a full set now. Let alone a full party in six hours.

This is the problem with this entire discussion. This condescending attitude that instances are inherently easy. Yet the only "challenge" in relation to open world HNMs is the claim wars that 79.3% of players that SE polled do not want.

And what challenge would the fight be when the claim system allows for people outside the claiming party to fight? Should SE forsake their game's design just to further accommodate a minority?

Here's an idea for compromise that I've suggested before: design HNMs that require tens if not hundreds of players to kill. That way it unites the community rather than seperates them. Make them unclaimable and have chances at loot be performance-based like Campaign in XI. That way the open world has terrible beasties randomly popping in it but no one gets locked out of content.

Because in the end, that's all people against HNMs are really concerned with. They can have the best items have abysmal drop rates to preserve the "rarity" and keep the longer respawns to boot.

[ESAR]

I say have some poped HNM's that you farm pop items off, say level 60-70 mobs.

Also some Roaming HNM.
Have them pop every five minutes like any regular NM, but put a recast timer of like 15min on any member that participated in the kill (like the raids), that way you don't have people hogging the NM.

Though I don't see how any Roaming NM will be that challenging if you can have 40+ people attacking it.
IDK I'm sure they'll figure out a good way to please everyone.

[Jinko]

Also some Roaming HNM.
Have them pop every five minutes like any regular NM, but put a recast timer of like 15min on any member that participated in the kill (like the raids), that way you don't have people hogging the NM.

This is a great idea, although 60 mins would be better that would give everyone a chance every hour.

Though I don't see how any Roaming NM will be that challenging if you can have 40+ people attacking it.
IDK I'm sure they'll figure out a good way to please everyone.

You still can't target or help kill other players leve mobs so there is definitely a way they could solve this issue.

But people want easy-mode, no competition syle FFXIV where they can go into the same instanced raid as many times in a day that they want, so that they can be 5/5 on all new gear sets in 1 day for their entire PT.

Yea because we have seen all those players with full darklight running about haven't we. /sigh

We all like your suggestion of 100 man boss battles, its cool. But the rest of us want plain old, open world HNM's as well. Just because you don't like them, and want to post useless statistics about who all DOESNT want them, is not going to change our pursuit of the implementation of said NM's.

Ahh so its like fighting a loosing battle ? *the people have spoken*

[Sagagemini]

[2] on Copy FFXI.
But no crazy 24h+ timers. That was ridiculous.
Maybe 2h? Or forced popped HNMs?

[ArnoMorley]

The people that don't want a 24 hour respawn or a claim war seem to be missing the point... once a day pops were fine, once a week pops were fine. You're not supposed to be able to kill something over and over again. The thing about hnms in FFXI was that you didn't just kill one nm a day you went for several. If there was one HNM in the game you wouldn't want a once a day spawn but if there were 30 of them it's a different story.

If you cut the spawn time in half you have to cut the drop rate in half, I'd rather kill something once a day with a higher drop rate then kill something over and over again.

And posts using the words time sink should be marked as spam... The difficulty on nms in XI varied, Fafnir/Nidhogg were pretty difficult at times, jormy/tiamat were even harder. Then there's the ToAU hnms, the point of the spawn times were not to make it difficult. It was to spread the game out, drops were kept rarer and everybody didn't camp the same thing everyday.

[ThePatriarch]

Sephrick, as much as we all enjoy reading the same responses from you over and over again in every thread, understand this:

We all like your suggestion of 100 man boss battles, its cool. But the rest of us want plain old, open world HNM's as well. Just because you don't like them, and want to post useless statistics about who all DOESNT want them, is not going to change our pursuit of the implementation of said NM's.

There is a sense of adventure, action, upset, etc when it comes to open world NM hunting. Instances, and 100 man fights that yield no drops will not bring that.

I understand that you think that the population doesn't want HNM's, but I assure you, we do.

[Sephrick]

Sephrick, as much as well all enjoy reading the same responses from you over and over again in every thread, understand this:

We all like your suggestion of 100 man boss battles, its cool. But the rest of us want plain old, open world HNM's as well. Just because you don't like them, and want to post useless statistics about who all DOESNT want them, is not going to change our pursuit of the implementation of said NM's.

There is a sense of adventure, action, upset, etc when it comes to open world NM hunting. Instances, and 100 man fights that yield no drops will not bring that.

I understand that you think that the population doesn't want HNM's, but I assure you, we do.

As if your posts aren't the definition of redundancy?

You can call SE's own poll data "useless" all you want but it was those first two polls that helped shape the direction of 2.0's design.

I'm tossing out ideas that can make everyone happy but it's not enough because they circumvent the core motivating factor of those pushing for XI-style HNMs. You only want a pedestal to stand on.

Again, it's a matter of quid pro quo.

To accommodate HNMs as they were in XI's days of old, the majority of players who have stated they don't want open world claim wars have to give up their right to experience content on their own schedule.

To have a game where sought-after loot comes from instances, a minority of player give up the perceived "rush" of claim wars but still get to play content.

Clearly, the majority is paying the heavier price. Which is why the game is going to be mainly instanced.

Even XI couldn't sustain being "old XI" anymore. Why would SE remake content they phased out of the original game?

If you really want to have a successful campaign to have premier content be HNMs, why not take it to XI? And that's not a "Derp, go play XI" statement. It just seems like it might be a more successful concept there than here.

But it all comes back to the fact that if old XI endgame was such a wonderful design, we'd all still be playing it and XI wouldn't have tossed it out.

But in the end, you won't get anywhere without significantly more support. And you won't get that unless you start discussing compromise. Which you've made quite clear you have no interest in doing so.

Each of these threads go exactly the same. Two sides plug their ears and argue for 10+ pages. I state my own personal opinions then try to suggest compromise and am then singled out as some sort of hypocritical hate monger who just wants free items for entering an instance.

Clearly the HNM topic won't be considered a "win" for you unless the result of implementation is an epeen pedestal to stand on.

Allow me to dig in and mirror your personality.

HNMs suck. Camping them is boring. The battles are easy mode. The only challenge is out claiming the RMT bot. Give me the complex and challenging instances 2.0's engine and servers are being designed for over XI content that XI got rid of any day.

[ThePatriarch]

HNMs suck. Camping them is boring. The battles are easy mode. The only challenge is out claiming the RMT bot. Give me the complex and challenging instances 2.0's engine and servers are being designed for over XI content that XI got rid of any day.

So according to you, we should listen to your opinion and that of a specified group of people. and completely ignore the wants of another group? For the sakes of the masses lets all hope you never go into game design.

And yes, lets make a game purely based off instances, and even further lets assume due to 2.0 they will be good?

Despite all of our ascertations to keep this thread about ways to positively implement HNM's in a manner that will cater to the vast majority, you have to come into threads and force your opinions on everyone else. You have some good ideas, and you have some simply terrible ideas. I am in the same boat, I don't expect what I want, to be what everyone else wants. I want this thread to be the melting pot of a collaboration of ideas.

So if you can't keep constructively participate in what we would like to accomplish in this thread, feel free to go bother other people. I gaurantee you, there are atleast 10 people out there who care about what you have to say.

/e and even further more, in the quote above i noticed you failed to comprehend what we have been saying:

We hated camping too, we want shorter time frames, pops, etc.

HNM's most definitely did not suck, they were a staple of FFXI (Even through you hate it)

We want to spread the spawn range, and make it much larger to stave off botters.

and lastly, you talk of challenging instances... they havent even come out yet, you have absolutely no way of knowing if they will truly be challenging.

[Exni]

Roaming Dragons.
Giant Beasts.
High Respawn Timers.
Amazing Gear.

I know everyone crys foul over copy+paste ideas from Final Fantasy XI. But lets be honest, they were the reason alot of people played. The rush of getting claim over your enemy linkshells. Watching an awesome wipe. Seeing that ever-elusive item in the loot pool. So many amazing memories of great times.

This topic is about the possible implementation of non-instanced, highly notorious monsters to roam the open plains of Final Fantasy XIV.

I would like ideas, opinions, etc; on how we can implement something of this nature that caters to all crowds. Lets hear it.

Good OP. Definetly something that XIV is SORELY missing. For anyone playing more than a few months, and especially those of us who have been here since launch or before, open-world excitement just doesn't exist.. period. Adding some quality HNM (non-instanced) with shortened timers (by comparison to XI) would add a great deal of "something to do" whether you wanted to clear it all, or just watch others go at it. This game already has claim wars (see job quests during patch weekend..) but it's not an issue due to the reallly short repop. XI was such a big deal (to some..) because after waiting all night long for 10+ hrs waiting for HNM to pop, the LS that jus showed up 30m ago gets the lucky claim.. and you essentially just blew your whole day... for just ONE *chance* at getting your loot. HNM in XIV shouldn't have quite as short a repop as NM, but 1-4 hours timers would work.