Highly Notorious Monsters

[fusional]

threads like these are always funny.

people who want a greater challenge never say the entire game needs to be really hard. they never say the entire game needs to cater to them and only them. they're only asking for *something* that their demographic can actually find challenging, rewarding and enjoyable. they never try to pry away the more casual content.

so why do the people who want casual content and/or don't want more challenging content insist on ruining things for those who do?

if you don't want it, don't participate in it. simple. but don't try to block it from being implemented into the game just because you personally don't want it.

it just makes you come across like petulant, spoiled little flailing children.

[Alerith]

threads like these are always funny.

people who want a greater challenge never say the entire game needs to be really hard. they never say the entire game needs to cater to them and only them. they're only asking for *something* that their demographic can actually find challenging, rewarding and enjoyable. they never try to pry away the more casual content.

so why do the people who want casual content and/or don't want more challenging content insist on ruining things for those who do?

if you don't want it, don't participate in it. simple. but don't try to block it from being implemented into the game just because you personally don't want it.

it just makes you come across like petulant, spoiled little flailing children.

I believe there was a thread created a while ago about someone wanting an "Easy, Hard Mode" for the level 50 Ifrit because the actual level 50 Ifrit was too stressful and they couldn't be bothered to do it, but didn't consider the level 25 as an acceptable alternative. They wanted the exact same experience as the level 50 Ifrit, but they wanted a special version so it was easier.

You'll never stop running into those kind of people, and arguing with them is just a waste of time.

[Req]

threads like these are always funny.

people who want a greater challenge never say the entire game needs to be really hard. they never say the entire game needs to cater to them and only them. they're only asking for *something* that their demographic can actually find challenging, rewarding and enjoyable. they never try to pry away the more casual content.

so why do the people who want casual content and/or don't want more challenging content insist on ruining things for those who do?

if you don't want it, don't participate in it. simple. but don't try to block it from being implemented into the game just because you personally don't want it.

it just makes you come across like petulant, spoiled little flailing children.

The thing that gets me is there is absolutely no middle ground between the people that want it and dont want it. Its always got to be black and white, casual vs hardcore. The truth of the matter is, the system in FFXI worked because of the fact the average player base was like mid teens to lower 20s with absolutely no responsibilites other than showing up to school. Nowadays, 90% of the player base has a job or is in college or both, and can't wake up at 3 am to camp fafnir or whatever.

This doesn't make me casual, I was there in FFXI every single day when the spawn window was open granted it wasn't during the 6 hour period I was in high school. This whole casual vs hardcore bs needs to stop if the game wants to go anywhere and everyone needs to agree on a new system that can work for everyone, whether they want to participate or not. If the former is true, and they do want to participate in this it needs to be in a way that it is convenient enough that if they can only play 2-3 hours a day they will have the opportunity to do it during the time they log in, yet challenging enough they will only get the opportunity to do it 1-2 times a night max with rewards that are rewarding enough to make the content worthwhile for a long time coming.

To all the people saying they want the 24 hour nms back from ffxi. Was it really the nms that were hard? Or was it the fact you were sitting there for 3 hours at a time waiting for pop windows every half an hour and camping against 60 other people that made it felt worthwhile when you killed it. That isn't difficulty, thats called a time sink. And its the same exact damn thing all of you are complaining about with the new dungeons and their low as hell drop rates, and the same exact damn thing you were complaining about last patch with the keystones.

None of you want challenge, you just want to be able to shove it in other peoples faces when you claim an nm that only spawns once a day.

[ThePatriarch]

None of you want challenge, you just want to be able to shove it in other peoples faces when you claim an nm that only spawns once a day.

Please read before posting.

None of us want the 24 hour pops. We would all like to see those pop times reduced dramatically. I would love 6 hour pops, with a 15 minute window. Also, make the pop spot be an entire zone, not limit it to one specific spot to encourage botting (ie Fafnir/Nid)

We don't want a timesink, we want open world NM's that pose a challenge. We are talking about the kind of NM's that will take several wipes before finding a good strategy. NM's that dont have a gauranteed drop rate. Of course some people are going to be a little jealous when they see people sporting some sexy gear, that is how it will be no matter what. That happens with Instanced gear...

But that certain aspect is not what we are after. We just want the chase, the excitement, the thrill of the claim, and the giddy anticipation as the mob dies and the loot pool finally comes up. To see it dropped nothing. Tomorrow maybe!

I am in your boat though, i work a 50 hour work week, I can't camp like I used to. Which is why I want to dilute the timesink method of FFXIV and make it palpable in this game to cater to everyone. Not just the hardcore/casual gamers.

[Req]

Please read before posting.

None of us want the 24 hour pops. We would all like to see those pop times reduced dramatically. I would love 6 hour pops, with a 15 minute window. Also, make the pop spot be an entire zone, not limit it to one specific spot to encourage botting (ie Fafnir/Nid)

We don't want a timesink, we want open world NM's that pose a challenge. We are talking about the kind of NM's that will take several wipes before finding a good strategy. NM's that dont have a gauranteed drop rate. Of course some people are going to be a little jealous when they see people sporting some sexy gear, that is how it will be no matter what. That happens with Instanced gear...

But that certain aspect is not what we are after. We just want the chase, the excitement, the thrill of the claim, and the giddy anticipation as the mob dies and the loot pool finally comes up. To see it dropped nothing. Tomorrow maybe!

I am in your boat though, i work a 50 hour work week, I can't camp like I used to. Which is why I want to dilute the timesink method of FFXIV and make it palpable in this game to cater to everyone. Not just the hardcore/casual gamers.

I don't know where you are getting that I am not reading or that no one is calling for the 24 hour nms spawns, considering you quoted someone just a few posts ago saying to add "quick spawns. long spawns. lottery spawns. Place holder spawns. timed spawns. 24 hours spawns. rare spawns." to which they also said, "if you don't like it then don't do it." And people like that is what i was generally responding to in my post. There is no middle ground, everyone seems to want free roaming nms, and the general concensus is "instances are bad because they are too repeatable." What about timed instances that are challenging. Ones that you can be repeated only every so often but with great rewards? Remember einherjahr? Even skilled linkshells had trouble getting through there, and it didnt take the ability to sit there and wait, you could log in and you were done with it in half an hour at your linkshells convenience and you either moved on to the next tier or didnt. Like lots of people have also suggested, what about poppable nms that are hard to get the pops for like kirin that you could do at your own conveniance but was still a pain in the ass to get to because you had to kill 12 other nms before you even got there. This is the middle ground.

As far as roaming nms, the best middle ground I could think of would be roaming NMS that are so damn powerful it takes 100 people to take down on like a 2 week spawn. Something that is such a massive undertaking you would need to gather a large portion of the server during a set time to take it down, something that would take time and planning would need to be at a time convenient for a large majority of the player base to undertake, and not just based on which ls could be there on time and who could claim it first. How the rewards would work, I have absolutely no idea, maybe something involving the free company system where your free company gets a tokens or some sort of currency based on how involved it was in the fight which could then be exchanged to fight a poppable nm that drops gear, or could just be traded in for gear itself. Whether this is going to be possible in 2.0 or not I have no idea.

I am sure there are other ways that there could be balance between this, but everyone needs to realize for this to be a successful game the player base needs to have challenging content with rare items, that isnt based on whether or not they can log in at a certain time dictated by an algorithm SE made, and more about the time they can log in at their convenience and take part in the challenging content.

[KyrsIsley]

The thing that gets me is there is absolutely no middle ground between the people that want it and dont want it. Its always got to be black and white, casual vs hardcore. The truth of the matter is, the system in FFXI worked because of the fact the average player base was like mid teens to lower 20s with absolutely no responsibilites other than showing up to school. Nowadays, 90% of the player base has a job or is in college or both, and can't wake up at 3 am to camp fafnir or whatever.

This doesn't make me casual, I was there in FFXI every single day when the spawn window was open granted it wasn't during the 6 hour period I was in high school. This whole casual vs hardcore bs needs to stop if the game wants to go anywhere and everyone needs to agree on a new system that can work for everyone, whether they want to participate or not. If the former is true, and they do want to participate in this it needs to be in a way that it is convenient enough that if they can only play 2-3 hours a day they will have the opportunity to do it during the time they log in, yet challenging enough they will only get the opportunity to do it 1-2 times a night max with rewards that are rewarding enough to make the content worthwhile for a long time coming.

To all the people saying they want the 24 hour nms back from ffxi. Was it really the nms that were hard? Or was it the fact you were sitting there for 3 hours at a time waiting for pop windows every half an hour and camping against 60 other people that made it felt worthwhile when you killed it. That isn't difficulty, thats called a time sink. And its the same exact damn thing all of you are complaining about with the new dungeons and their low as hell drop rates, and the same exact damn thing you were complaining about last patch with the keystones.

None of you want challenge, you just want to be able to shove it in other peoples faces when you claim an nm that only spawns once a day.

Well said. I would much rather spend hours theorycrafting trying to maximize the raid's performance to down a boss. Not waking up at 3am, and come back to my computer every 29min just to see if it spawns at the next 30min mark for the next 3 hrs. I think there's a fine line between challenging and time sink. FFXI HNMs when they were on long timer is a time sink. The completely randomness of Ifrit weapon (before totem) and broken distribution system is a time sink, just because you have more time doesn't make you good. Being able to raid efficiently should be the indicator of how good you and your group are.

[Andros]

Im 1000% for this. IF you dont like it. DONT FREAKING CAMP THEM. TOO BAD. We want rare monsters. Lots of them. Im for quick spawns. long spawns. lottery spawns. Place holder spawns. timed spawns. 24 hours spawns. rare spawns. Add it all.
VARIETY PLEASE. These are the things that made me LOVE final fantasy 11 in the early years. And its what i HOPE for and look forward to 2.0 the most. (+New maps)

It was very fun to earn a chance to fight something not everyone can at any time. Made it mean something.

You can still add BCNM style stuff. Trigger pop stuff for those people who dont like competition or cry about potential bot use.
World NM are exciting and fun.

[ThePatriarch]

Im 1000% for this. IF you dont like it. DONT FREAKING CAMP THEM. TOO BAD. We want rare monsters. Lots of them. Im for quick spawns. long spawns. lottery spawns. Place holder spawns. timed spawns. 24 hours spawns. rare spawns. Add it all.
VARIETY PLEASE. These are the things that made me LOVE final fantasy 11 in the early years. And its what i HOPE for and look forward to 2.0 the most. (+New maps)

It was very fun to earn a chance to fight something not everyone can at any time. Made it mean something.

You can still add BCNM style stuff. Trigger pop stuff for those people who dont like competition or cry about potential bot use.
World NM are exciting and fun.

I agree.

While it baffles me me how the people who are so against it spend so much time coming into these threads and try to smash even the possibility of HNM's/FFXI-ish ideas from being implemented... They have the instances they love so much, what does it matter if we have some free roaming open NM's outside for everyone to see.

It is the best of both worlds, and regardless of whether anyone likes it or not HNM's would be a good addition to the game, and would surely produce some more subs.

[Abhayaa]

I'm down with the idea of having 24 hour type HNMs being force spawn from items farmed from normal monsters. I remember this idea being passed around the player base of ffxi as a fix at the time. That, or 12 hour spawn with a 15-30 minute window. If you take out the 3 hour camp, which was really pretty ridiculous, and double the spawns per day to suit more time zones, I don't think there would be the same problem. You would keep the value of the claim with less frustration of losing it. Maybe even as low as a 6 or 8 hour respawn.

NMs need to hold some amount of value. Having them spawn like normal mobs really saps the fun out of them. It also removes inherent value from the items they drop. God forbid actually having to /try/ to get that item you want.

It's the difference between being handed something and having to work for it. Which, in the end, is more satisfying?