Highly Notorious Monsters

[Jeronlmo]

1)I don't see how the amount of time a monster takes to spawn or the amount of that time that you actually end up waiting for it is relevant. good drops should be rewarded more for challenge than for the amount of time you spend twiddling your thumbs. I don't see why sitting around camping waiting for an NM to pop makes you more deserving of a reward than if you just have a challenging fight with low drop rates. I've never minded once a day spawns, but I do mind the 3 hours of 30 minute spawn windows.

2)Specifically at the first part of your sentence, it's really not possible to make it where every time you fight a monster it feels amazing. It always feels better the first time- but it sure doesn't feel better when the fight is easy and the only hard part was beating 100 other people to pressing the claim button. XIV 1.0 had its share of rare drops that not everybody had. Did they need 3-7 day spawns with 30 minute windows throughout? No, they didn't. You can't tell me you didn't get this kind of charge out of getting a piece of darklight. If you do, you're being hypocritical, because those weren't common items.

3)That's fine to me as long as the rewards are equivalent in quality (obv. there would be limits on how often you could challenge the instance or have a lower drop rate if you could challenge it more often). If some people want to sit around waiting for something to pop, that's their perogative, but I don't feel that being idle for a few hours entitles someone to a bigger reward.

Just because we don't find camping very fun doesn't mean we're not hardcore players- I'm very much a hardcore player- but I prefer to spend my time in the game immersed in the content as much as possible. I want reward consummate with risk not wait time.

1) So lets all get this right, even though both sides of this have been stated over and over. You... personally... have limited time to play, but are in favor of 24hr respawns but 100% against windows.

Now lets think this through... if something spawns exactly 24hrs after the previous respawn and there is nothing to move the window to other time zones... ever... either you or every single other time zone would never see this mob, have no windows means literally seconds of available time where you would have to be there every day for the claim, end of story.

2) I was going to say FF11 did it, but no, it was by far the closest though, the first maby 5 kills was amazing reguardless of drops, but after that I needed a good drop generally (some of those wake up in the middle of the night to claim/kill days was a happy moment reguardless of drops), but the fact that every single time i saw an e.body/ridill/d.ring/a.body or any drop anyone there needed atleast in my eyes means they did it right.

3) OMG... its called einherjar, it had literally the exact same drops as the HNM's, and had higher drop rates... and more drops, for the love of god look up einherjar or something so I can stop repeating it.

Camping/having windows has nothing to do with being "hardcore", it makes economical sense. Believe it or not having windows would not benefit me or any of these other people, windows share the HNM's between time zones and keeps them rare at the same time. All of these other methods we keep getting repeated to us sacrifice one or the other, your either trying to keep the HNM in your specific time zone 100% of the time (which you are), or others are trying to lower respawns/make it an instance and make it worthless and burn the content within weeks of release.

In short, you do not have to like windows, but they should be there to keep the balance, you have an alternative... or atleast you did in FF11, what you should be fighting for is making sure an event is released like einherjar (in terms of having the same drops).

[Jeronlmo]

That's fine to me as long as the rewards are equivalent in quality (obv. there would be limits on how often you could challenge the instance or have a lower drop rate if you could challenge it more often). If some people want to sit around waiting for something to pop, that's their perogative, but I don't feel that being idle for a few hours entitles someone to a bigger reward.

Just because your still going, im going to repost my responce to this above... Einherjar. It seems you keep blacking out or something every time you get to this answer and missing this... over and over. You said if there was an event that had all of the drops that HNM's do you would be fine with it aslong as there is no difference in the gear... which there wasnt.

So why are you still going on, your problem with this has a solution that FF11 had, and we all agree there should be an alternate way/event to get any/all gear from HNM's.


Random thought

Imagine behemoths dominion... but much larger and full of little behemoths to exp off of (though it should not be efficient to exp in this area, they should take to long to kill), maby there could be an ending area where KB could spawn thats safe from the normal agro so you do not have to bother with it, but you could have to fight your way to where KB spawns and during windows you could kill normal behemoths for drops (example could be the black belt item... like a 1% chance on normal behemoths... if not less, considering people would be mass killing them all the time and they could also drop horns or something more common.).

Instead of trying to get rid of windows because you want a broken system where the window stay in your time zone 100% of the time, try to think of something SE could put into the game with HNM's that would solve the problem.

[Shougun]

OK so, FFXII in mind - you get those monster kill requests from the board.

Now, HNM idea.


Force popped: do certain actions / get certain items - pop monster, or pop a zone that has the monsters in it


Window popped: HNM will appear on boards all over the world, when a party enters the zone they will be given the choice to start a hunt - if they accept they will not see anyone else in a hunt for the same creature. The hunted creature will only aggro their party. Once you kill the monster he is dead till he respawns - his window is decided by the first kill on him. If SE wants to be nice they can leave a time of death in the beastiary or some menu of the hunt board.


After the first kill he has half his window time to despawn from all hunt boards. So a ~48 hour monster pops, a group kills him, ~24 hours from now all hunting boards will stop letting others hunt him, ~48 hours later he will pop again.

Perhaps if you havent gotten the flier from the HNM board that a moogle may pop up and inform you of a dangerous monster nearby and your party can volunteer to join the hunt that way. PS I want a personal moogle so this makes more sense in my head.. :P (moogle popping up to talk to you)


Window popped monsters would be special because you wouldnt and couldnt grind them - but in theory everyone should get a chance as its not about who can claim faster.

[Takeshi_Eiketsu]

I guess, what it comes down to here, is feeling of some sort of accomplishment. With three hours of gathering I would feel accomplished, because I got items. On the flip side, if I spent three hours camping and did not get the claim, then I would feel I wasted my time (even though I know when it died, the window means I have to do more waiting still later).

So I think this is ultimately where our opinions differ, because I think that even though you may have waited and not received the claim, the knowledge of its death time would deem the time spent worthy to you.

But, since we agreed that the gear could be obtained by other means, my opinion of the time spent on a camp being wasted if not receiving the claim is meaningless and your opinion on the same matter is meaningless too, for us to go back and forth on it would just be counterproductive. It seems we have reached a mutual agreement and understanding even though our opinions differ on a small aspect of it, which is a win/win in my book.

(If I am wrong in my assumption, please correct me.)

[Exn]

I guess, what it comes down to here, is feeling of some sort of accomplishment. With three hours of gathering I would feel accomplished, because I got items. On the flip side, if I spent three hours camping and did not get the claim, then I would feel I wasted my time (even though I know when it died, the window means I have to do more waiting still later).

So I think this is ultimately where our opinions differ, because I think that even though you may have waited and not received the claim, the knowledge of its death time would deem the time spent worthy to you.

But, since we agreed that the gear could be obtained by other means, my opinion of the time spent on a camp being wasted if not receiving the claim is meaningless and your opinion on the same matter is meaningless too, for us to go back and forth on it would just be counterproductive. It seems we have reached a mutual agreement and understanding even though our opinions differ on a small aspect of it, which is a win/win in my book.

(If I am wrong in my assumption, please correct me.)

+1.

/10char

[Soonkyu]

Let's get a few things straight.

Scenario A:

If I log in at 1 PM and log out 10 PM, I have played the game for 9 hours. Let's say that of those 9 hours, 6 were spent crafting or leveling a class (something tangible and produces immediate reward for time given). Let's say for the other 3 hours, I decided to stand (idle) in a zone, waiting for a monster to appear, on the chance that I'm going to get claim to that monster. Let's go with a negative outcome this time. The monster did not appear. I log out for the night, with my effective time coming in at 6 hours of play (since 3 were wasted). That doesn't matter, though, because I'm hardcore and I decide that the amount of work I put in was 9 hours worth. (It's not, I just want to pretend it is because I don't want to think I've wasted my time. Which I did.) I do this for a week straight and for that week, I either do not see the mob spawn or do not get claim of the mob. I played 9 hours a day, coming out with a cumulative of 63 hours of play. However, 3 hours of each day were spent standing around waiting for a chance at something. So, out of 63 hours of play, 21 of those hours were wasted (time spent with no reward = a negative) because I received nothing from it. Whatever, I played 63 hours, I'm hardcore. (Only 42 hours of my time were actually effective, though.)

Scenario B:

If I log in at 1 PM and log out at 7 PM, I have played the game for 6 hours. Let's say that of those 6 hours, all were spent farming items and completing challenges for a tiered system involving Notorious Monsters. These Notorious Monster fights require coordination, the right combination of jobs, and a know-how to complete the fights within a certain amount of time. It is not content that the average player walks into and completes with their eyes closed. It takes me a week to make it to the last stage of the tiered system, where my Linkshell and I get to fight the HNM. There's no guessing about it. We passed all the stages and made it to the monster. The monster requires very specific tactics and we execute them like a well oiled machine. Although we've managed to kill the HNM, he doesn't drop anything but gil. At the end of the week, I've spent a cumulative 42 hours of time playing the game. Of those 42 hours, all of them are considered effective, because I received a reward (even though it was just gil) at the very end of it.

More TIME does not equal more EFFORT. More TIME does not mean being more HARDCORE. Scenario B is actually MORE hardcore than Scenario A, because Scenario A did not commit as many hours to END GAME content (and that's what we all assume when someone mentions hardcore). One person put in more work (the word "work" does not automatically mean effective work) than the other, but because the OTHER person worked SMARTER and not HARDER, they accomplished more within their limited time.

Fact: Time is money.

Fact: Windowed HNMs are like gambling. Gambling is specifically designed around something called negative expectancy. Negative expectancy roughly means that out of all the money I put into something, I can expect a ROUGHLY 90% return. No matter how I cut it, I lose. I did not get out of it what I put into it.

Fact: I'd rather spend my time being effective than wasting it. And I have a hell of a lot of time to spend as a disabled vet with nothing to do but play video games.

[Exn]

stuff

Fact: Most horrible examples (scenarios) given to try to prove a point ever.

How do you take the worst possible outcome in Scenario A, and compare it to the best possible outcome in Scenario B.. How do you know you didn't get item on first day in Sc. A, or how do you know you know that it takes everyone the same time to move through your Sc. B... Maybe not everyone can group day after day, multiple times in a row to complete tieried content like u described within a week.. Your scenarios don't show anything except your strong bias in this arguement.

Fact: All endgame content is a gamble.

Fact: Just because you wasted your time in a windowed system, doesn't mean everyone else did.

[Soonkyu]

Stuff about random stuff that had nothing to do with previous arguments about stuff.

I fixed it for you.

My point.





Your head.

[Exn]

My point.

Lol, you'd have to make one first!

You were talking about windowed content.. That has everything to do with previous arguements.. So your telling me your another person who has no clue what they're even posting..

Just because you can't defend your argument, doesn't mean it went over anyone's head there bud.

[Takeshi_Eiketsu]

Fact: Time is money.

Fact: Windowed HNMs are like gambling. Gambling is specifically designed around something called negative expectancy. Negative expectancy roughly means that out of all the money I put into something, I can expect a ROUGHLY 90% return. No matter how I cut it, I lose. I did not get out of it what I put into it.

Fact: I'd rather spend my time being effective than wasting it. And I have a hell of a lot of time to spend as a disabled vet with nothing to do but play video games.

I agree, my whole argument is that time should equal progression in a game. (not sitting around waiting, and twiddling thumbs.)