Let's Talk Tanks

[Kabooa]

While I enjoy performing positionals, I don't think they're a very sensible mechanic overall, at least as they're presently implemented, so if there was such an ultimatum between the two, I'd have to go with boss positions being important. That said, I don't think there would be an ultimatum so long as enemies weren't so quick to give up the illusion of being mobs, with limbs and eyes and a main body and so forth, instead of simply a spinning cylinder.

If mobs could just turn at visually reasonable rates, we could start to work even tank positionals into combat. Add to that stagger and an improved DR system for CCs and we could absolutely still support positionals, and likely more intuitively, even while letting boss positions matter.

I was speaking more along the lines of things like pulls, pushes, immobilizations, and the like.

Actual flank/rear type stuff seems the kind of thing a tank would open up rather than exploit themselves, but for the sake of argument, what if tanks had actions that created this windows of vulnerability that they themselves may not be able to exploit but the party can? It might even be the defining feature of a less offense oriented tank, creating a vulnerability on one of the target's 4 facings (Front, rear, left flank, right flank), and you coordinate around a team to really abuse it.

For instance, it lasts for just one action, so the action that hits it you want it to match in characteristics as much as possible. Auto crit, resource refund, +potency-per-hit, that sort of thing.

[Shurrikhan]

I was speaking more along the lines of things like pulls, pushes, immobilizations, and the like.

Actual flank/rear type stuff seems the kind of thing a tank would open up rather than exploit themselves, but for the sake of argument, what if tanks had actions that created this windows of vulnerability that they themselves may not be able to exploit but the party can? It might even be the defining feature of a less offense oriented tank, creating a vulnerability on one of the target's 4 facings (Front, rear, left flank, right flank), and you coordinate around a team to really abuse it.

For instance, it lasts for just one action, so the action that hits it you want it to match in characteristics as much as possible. Auto crit, resource refund, +potency-per-hit, that sort of thing.

Ahh, my mistake. I'd like to see that, too, but I doubt most bosses would seem vulnerable to being kicked backwards or the like. Would love to see that on smaller mobs though.

Heck, I'd love it if even dealing with 5 mobs at a time felt like a fight to survive by keeping them in front of you, constantly stopping attacks or outranging them mid-swing (similar to a snapshotted zonal AoE but without an indicator; we already have several ingame examples), kicking them back or even immobilizing them into friendly fire, etc.

As to the second point, I prefer as little as possible arbitration "by type". If something works on a DPS, it should work on tank, just that much more or less so based on the actual factors in question (AP, potency, Defense, etc). I'm working out an AI system that builds around the idea of making enemies function more similarly to how they appear, rather than each enemy just being an oddly decorated, friction-less cylinder, which may provide what you're looking for. It makes use of sub-units (some targetable, some strikable only via interception -- and therefore via positioning) such as left foreleg, right hind-leg, head, tail, etc, and a complete rehaul of enmity that should make coordination feel far more necessary and rewarding without relying on anything arbitrary. It's pretty long, though, especially if I provide its context, so it'll be at least another few days in all likelihood.

[Kabooa]

Ahh, my mistake. I'd like to see that, too, but I doubt most bosses would seem vulnerable to being kicked backwards or the like. Would love to see that on smaller mobs though.

Heck, I'd love it if even dealing with 5 mobs at a time felt like a fight to survive by keeping them in front of you, constantly stopping attacks or outranging them mid-swing (similar to a snapshotted zonal AoE but without an indicator; we already have several ingame examples), kicking them back or even immobilizing them into friendly fire, etc.

Much more difficult 4-man content would be ideal here. Do a quick rebalance of Crowd Control options (So AoE sleep doesn't reign supreme) while putting more short term control options on the tank and healers, while low scope but high duration options are on the DPS. Rework diminishing returns so that immunity is primarily a threat on CC designed to keep things at bay as opposed to CC designed to gain breathing room.

For example

Tanks have knock backs, short duration stuns, pacifies, Slows, and Interrupts. These types of control either have very quick immunities or none at all.

DPS have single target, long duration "Mezzes" and roots, where hard CC has harsher DRs while the soft CCs like roots are more lenient. After all, it doesn't do you much good to root a ranged enemy.

Healers might have a combination of both.

For standard 4man content this doesn't really change anything, but a proper "Hard mode" where enemy pack size and lethality is increased, perhaps even with ramping damage increases that discourage aoe bombing down everything. The tanks focus in this scenario is on one or two enemies for focus fire while they actively impede the rest to keep their face from being clawed off.