A good old boyish cott

[Sparkthor]

I don't think I would boycott being a healer, I think it would be the worst idea to express our concerns for our healer classes. Best thing we can do is give feedback and suggestions on how our classes would feel better, play better or overall be fun again. It might take some time for our concerns to be heard but I do believe they haven't forgotten about us. I think they just need some time and our patience.

The best would to clearly identified what do you think is wrong. Because :
- some complains about no dps rotation -a lot past SCH it seems, as AST haven't move and WHM so little- but having SUM and SCH tied together with a lot a common skills was a mistake in the first place (according to Yoshi-P, and i agree).
- some wanna have less down time : two problem in one :the more you are good, the more downtime you will have, same on gear, and it's more an encounter design issue than job one.
- some wanna healer to be more different from each other (same could be said for tanks). Issue : SE don't want to have some encounter which requires some specific job. Having the same base line allong all healer maybe seems to be a lazy solution, but it may also be the best one.

And the most important thing : A lot of player are actually happy with the current iterations (or at least, they don't mind) : No solution can make everyone happy.

[MitsukiKimura]

The best would to clearly identified what do you think is wrong. Because :
- some complains about no dps rotation -a lot past SCH it seems, as AST haven't move and WHM so little- but having SUM and SCH tied together with a lot a common skills was a mistake in the first place (according to Yoshi-P, and i agree).
- some wanna have less down time : two problem in one :the more you are good, the more downtime you will have, same on gear, and it's more an encounter design issue than job one.
- some wanna healer to be more different from each other (same could be said for tanks). Issue : SE don't want to have some encounter which requires some specific job. Having the same base line allong all healer maybe seems to be a lazy solution, but it may also be the best one.

And the most important thing : A lot of player are actually happy with the current iterations (or at least, they don't mind) : No solution can make everyone happy.

I can assure you "Most" Of the Astro are not happy with how they killed off their uniqueness of the class with the current system in place. Those who complained about fishing for a balance never really appreciated the Variety of having different ways to go about the class which was a VERY small minority.

[vtndll]

Sure I'll join your boycott. I'm already nearly exclusively playing dancer so it's not that big of a change for me. Unfortunately I don't think it will make a difference, but we'll see.

[Sparkthor]

At least the same minority as the forum or the reddit ones. Also i didn't mention the AST card case because i think the old system to be a big broken mess (few will agree with me but whatever). And some people haven't even given a chance to the new one. Moreover, it would be known if the only issue with AST was the card one. MP issue, noct sect ones are way more revelent.

[Kuwago]

At least the same minority as the forum or the reddit ones. Also i didn't mention the AST card case because i think the old system to be a big broken mess (few will agree with me but whatever). And some people haven't even given a chance to the new one. Moreover, it would be known if the only issue with AST was the card one. MP issue, noct sect ones are way more revelent.

I think what the problem that most people have with the newer cards is that it feels lackluster and more of a chore than the old cards. Yes you can buff 4-5 players within 5-10 seconds with draw and sleeve draw but before you had the option to give everyone the card buff. I agree that the old card wasn't perfect but it was unique and different and is the one identifier that differentiates AST towards SCH and WHM. While I love the old cards better than the new ones, the new cards are better in terms of calculating contribution to raid parties, but I still think that there was a way to combine the new cards with the varying effects of the old cards.

[MitsukiKimura]

At least the same minority as the forum or the reddit ones. Also i didn't mention the AST card case because i think the old system to be a big broken mess (few will agree with me but whatever). And some people haven't even given a chance to the new one. Moreover, it would be known if the only issue with AST was the card one. MP issue, noct sect ones are way more revelent.

Reddit seriously? I strongly recommend the old card system over this new one to ANY player that wants to play astrologian. New system is a dull, boring and lazy way to be creative about the class and I'm sorry you think it's better than the old one.

[Lagomorph]

Going to reply to the things you've said throughout this thread...

But even when you're doing Duty Finder, or you post on these forums that you don't do Savage, you still get people in your face going "YOU'RE NOT CLIPPING oGCDs! LOOK AT THOSE DPS SPELLS YOU MISSED! YOU MISSED A GCD BECAUSE YOU WERE 0.5s LATE WITH THAT CAST!" like it's top percentile you're supposed to be chasing in Duty Finder.

The elitist crowd only have themselves to blame.

Do you have any proof that this is why healers were changed to be the way that they were? I don't think that you do. If this were the case, don't you think that all the dps jobs would have single button rotations too, because some people can't even handle pressing 1 button and doing mechanics?

I dunno some people claim they like WoW healing.

As much as I hate what WoW has become, I do think that healing in WoW is far more engaging and enjoyable than healing in this game. As that is my opinion and nothing more, I see no reason to justify it.

Because a lot of people whoa re going on and on about healers being "boring" ask for "more DPS buttons" and "I don't want to use the same 1 damage and 1 dot button over and over again" which means they want an actual DPS rotation.

The rest of us who just want to heal and throw a little damage when we get the chance to, don't want a DPS Rotation that is going to be broken up constantly by the need to keep people alive, nor do I want to be dropping dead when somebody else is playing the healer and they are focusing too heavily on the rotation.... like.... "I know the tank is 30% health but I am 1 button away from finishing this rotation!" and the tank drops dead before he can squeeze that last button out and THEN cast a heal.



They tried having the playstyles more varied in Stormblood and it led to severe job discrepancy. Everybody laughed at WHM in Stormblood, and AST reigned king because of the ridiculous buffs.



Why do you want Carbuncle as a healer? What purpose would that actually solve? Does it really matter which pet you have out? That doesn't change your gameplay at all.



You point out to Yoshi-P or any other dev saying that SCH is "meant to be a bit more challenging than the other healers". Go ahead, I'm waiting.



The old AST cards were just too powerful. Everybody "had to have" these buffs, and AST was asked for again and again, and there were times that I Q'd up as WHM and they go "meh no buffs" just because I'm a WHM and not an AST. It was clear we had a problem with AST being too OP. So they decided to tone the buffs down, and instead of the different cards being different buffs, they made it so you had to get 3 different types of cards for the best Divination.



So basically you're asking for more buttons to push while not healing, which is..... exactly what the people arguing against this DON'T want.



Yeah, until you show up in a group and you get kicked just for being a WHM, or people grumble and look at you like you're playing the wrong job, and/or you wanna be a WHM in manual group finder and nobody will invite you because there are ASTs and SCHs listed at the same time.

I don't feel like splitting this up into multiple quotes, but here are a few points.

1. No, most healers don't want a dps rotation. Did healers have a dps rotation in stormblood and heavensward? I don't recall much complaining about healer rotations back then.
2. No, varied playstyles do not create job descrepencies. I don't believe you actually know what you're talking about on this point. I can elaborate on why playstyles are unrelated to balance in another post if you like.
3. I actually agree that carbuncle on a healer is pointless.
4. Literally not once when I played white mage did people blame wipes on me for not playing ast. Unless you frequently play this game in a speedrun-esque environment, then I'm going to say that this likely never happened to you either.
5. SE can easily add buttons that barely impact a class's dps that raise the skill ceiling while still keeping the skill floor low. They've done it for other jobs (see samurai 3rd eye, among others), and I don't really see why it can't be done with healers.

If we low-percentile healers don't want complicated DPS rotations, the elitists will go "YOUR ENJOYMENT SHOULD NOT BE AT THE EXPENSE OF MINE!" when they fail to realize that what they are asking for, would come at the expense of our fun when our jobs get harder to play.

That depends. What kind of content are you doing? Are you doing savage fights? Did the group enrage? Were you just standing around for large periods of time doing nothing? If yes to all of these, then yeah you kind of deserved to be called out. Basically, if you're doing the latest content, you should be expected to pull your weight. If you were not pulling your weight in stormblood, I highly doubt that would change with the new single-button healer rotations without some effort on your own part to get better as a player.

I wouldn't mind optional DPS buttons that only give you like 10% of a difference or something, but then the elitsts will go "Pfft, that's hardly worth mentioning" and to be honest, would 1 or 2 extra DPS buttons really be THAT much different? Would going 12121212 or 12112112 be much different than 111111?

Quote where someone has said "Pfft, that's hardly worth mentioning". I have not seen this being said. Also, 121212 is far better than 111111.

That would be a terrible idea, because then you'd have balancing issues and job discrimination.

If all four were to be balanced so that their healing and DPS output were similar to each other, Anybody who's trying to do progression raiding would want everybody to bring Dave to make sure they clear the content. Why would they want Astrologian if the classes were balanced properly when a more complicated skillset means more potential for mistakes and distractions, the very thing you DON'T need in a Savage Raid?

Or, they could make AST do way better on the charts than Dave, and then guess what? Nobody would want to play Dave because it underperforms. Kinda like how people scoffed at RDM, and now DNC. How people scoffed at WHM during Stormblood.

Rotation complexity does not have to affect balance. I don't know why you think this.

After reading through most of this thread, I kind of get the feeling that once you had a bad encounter with someone in df with someone and you're bitter about it or something. A lot of the things that you're just saying straight up are not true. Do I think you'll listen to any of this? Probably not, but I posted this anyways I guess.

[Voidedge_Ragna]

If maybe 5% of players read the forum i would be suprised, you will never be able to boycott something this way.

The not enough healers wave has already passed, its back to "in need" for tanks again.

SE listens but their very very slow on job adjustments. Till we get them ill continue being sch whm and sometimes ast anyway.

[CrimsonGunner]

If maybe 5% of players read the forum i would be suprised, you will never be able to boycott something this way.

The not enough healers wave has already passed, its back to "in need" for tanks again.

SE listens but their very very slow on job adjustments. Till we get them ill continue being sch whm and sometimes ast anyway.

on my duty finder, tank and healer demand always switch every so often.

if SE really is listening then at least let us know they read the concerns.
if we get an answer like "we read your feedback's and will look into this" or "we don't think those concerns are valid" then it is fine for me , at least that way i will know what their stand about them is and that they actually read our feedback.
although if they will say "they don't think they are valid", it will bum me out but at least i won't feel like i am in limbo or being unheard.

[DiznypKC]

It's not a 30+ page discussion by players who have quit healing. Maybe read the thread to avoid spreading misinformation.



You speak for people who quit healing?

Funny. Last time I read it, it was packed with comments from players who have quit healing to various extents. Doesn’t look like misinformation to me. Maybe you have faulty reading comprehension. *shrug*