Your thoughts on promoting different modes and team sizes

[Shinklet]

Have the rewards be unique and everyone will do it no questions asked



Problem solved for creativity with modes and team sizes


Now delet dis

There needs to be a new currency for wins and wins alone for these rewards.
The fact that there are content creators big in the community that are tweeting out confidently that they will afk off-stream to farm wolf marks because they're a pittance currency that mean nothing is antithetical to pvp and competition.

[Nalien]

There needs to be a new currency for wins and wins alone for these rewards.

No, they just need to adjust the rewards structure for PvP in general. Change winning to a modifier, and make the reward based on a tally of your Kills/Deaths/Assists/Damage/Objectives/etc. So if you do nothing all match and just get carried to victory... A 1.5x modifier on zero is still zero, meanwhile a 1x modifier for losing but with 20 kills is still worthwhile... A reward structure like that would actually encourage participation and improvement; The better you get at PvP the more rewards you get, someone with 2 kills a match wont get the same reward as someone with 20. There is reason to play and improve with such a system, rather than the current "lose faster so we get rewards faster" attitude.

I'd also like to see a top 3 system attached to the various statistics at the end of battle, so top 3 kills, assists, damage dealt, healing done, damage taken, etc. (think something like Overwatches Gold/Silver/Bronze medals at the end of matches). Solely for the purpose of achievements, though it can also be a modifier for the basic EXP/Wolf Marks/etc rewards. Win x Frontlines matches is not a good system for achievements, you can have a 100% win rate or a 1% win rate, you'll still get that achievement in the end. Having achievements that actually encourage aiming for the highest kills/etc per match would, again, encourage people to improve. They're also far harder to obtain, giving the achievements a longer lifespan. Having something like that for Garo would have been interesting, rather than a bunch of 0 IQ leeches you'd have people coming in and either putting effort in to carry themselves or giving up when it's clear they'll get nowhere with a PvE snowflake attitude, a win-win IMO.

[Shinklet]

No, they just need to adjust the rewards structure for PvP in general. Change winning to a modifier, and make the reward based on a tally of your Kills/Deaths/Assists/Damage/Objectives/etc. So if you do nothing all match and just get carried to victory... A 1.5x modifier on zero is still zero, meanwhile a 1x modifier for losing but with 20 kills is still worthwhile... A reward structure like that would actually encourage participation and improvement; The better you get at PvP the more rewards you get, someone with 2 kills a match wont get the same reward as someone with 20. There is reason to play and improve with such a system, rather than the current "lose faster so we get rewards faster" attitude.

I'd also like to see a top 3 system (which Chocobo Racing, of all things, basically has already) attached to the various statistics at the end of battle, so top 3 kills, assists, damage dealt, healing done, damage taken, etc. Solely for the purpose of achievements. Win x Frontlines matches is not a good system for achievements, you can have a 100% win rate or a 1% win rate, you'll still get that achievement in the end. Having achievements that actually encourage aiming for the highest kills/etc per match would, again, encourage people to improve. They're also far harder to obtain, giving the achievements a longer lifespan. Having something like that for Garo would have been interesting, rather than a bunch of 0 IQ leeches you'd have people coming in and either putting effort in to carry themselves or giving up when it's clear they'll get nowhere with a PvE snowflake attitude, a win-win IMO.

What I suggest is realistic within the game's pre-existing systems and code.

What you suggested requires more time and to develop a system that would take a lot of work because of the engine that ffxiv uses. The game needs to tally these things, form an algorithm based on average performance and then distribute accordingly and somehow not get abused.

This is why games don't tend to do this and opt for ones that are time based like overwatch, call of duty, pubg, battlefield, league of legends, the list goes on.

Take a healer for example, a healer with lots of damage done would be evaluated as being above average and as a result recieve better rewards but would be costly and ineffective as a team.

If you just make it a zero-sum game where your knowledge and skill will win you more games and get you the currency, this is not only easy to implement, but cheap and cost effective based on the outcomes it gets.

[Nalien]

This is why games don't tend to do this and opt for ones that are time based like overwatch, call of duty, pubg, battlefield, league of legends, the list goes on.

Overwatch literally has a Gold/Silver/Bronze medal system at the end of matches which would be a godsend to XIV PvP. Not even a hard system to put into Frontlines; Chocobo Racing already has an emblem for Gold/Silver/Bronze, and the Frontlines results page already lets you rank players contribution.

Take a healer for example, a healer with lots of damage done would be evaluated as being above average and as a result recieve better rewards but would be costly and ineffective as a team.

A correction, I put damage in there when I shouldn't have. Base the tally purely off Kills/Assists/Objectives (Ice/etc.), with Deaths being a point against, although I'm not too sure on that point. For a medal system count damage, but somehow I doubt a healer would rank high enough for that to matter.

The game already tallies these statistics, it's just a matter of applying a value to them instead of overall placement. Various ways that can be done too, I'd rather not forgo a reward at the end, but you could reward players per Kill at the point of a Kill, which is really no different than how PvE works.

If you just make it a zero-sum game where your knowledge and skill will win you more games and get you the currency, this is not only easy to implement, but cheap and cost effective based on the outcomes it gets.

Sure, I just don't find it particularly rewarding. Rewarding the overall result, which you can put absolutely any amount of effort into and still receive, just wont feel as rewarding as rewarding individual effort, IMO. It wont encourage the same level of individual improvement, because it's a team game with increasingly limited control over your team. There's still going to be people who come in and "ruin it" for people, and that's going to discourage people from trying. Why put that effort in when others are going to undermine it, after all? At least if you reward individual participation, you always have incentive to keep trying for you own sake. That hopefully ripples down and improves the overall quality of players. Continue to reward simply getting carried? People will continue to simply do no more than try and get carried. Someone who actually tries will have a higher win rate of course, but so long as you can put effort in that goes unrewarded, or put minimal effort in and get rewarded... The majority of players are going to take the path of least resistance. Rewarding randoms for being on the team with the most premades doesn't change their attitudes at all. Punishing players for putting effort in when they get teammates who just feed doesn't encourage them to keep putting effort in.

If we're talking cost effectiveness though, SE already has their solution; Ignore NA/EU completely. JP has a different culture going on which mitigates a lot of our issues, so our issues don't even exist to begin with. We want something fixed which JP doesn't need fixed. Look no further than "Hello" for proof; NA/EU want a specialized "I'm Ready" quick chat function added, the JPs client "Hello" translates closer to that already which is why it's even used that way to begin with. Since they don't need an "I'm Ready" quickchat, we don't get one, despite it being a frequent suggestion and requiring very little work to actually implement. They could even just change the localization of "Hello" to "I'm Ready", but nope... The localization team would rather throw another Beta Wolf on us. That title being another case of "Well, it's not an issue in JP... So...". Rival Wings need a Roulette to help with pops? What do you mean, it's frequently active on JP, no adjustment required. 24 player Frontlines? Not popular in JP so say goodbye to it, doesn't matter how popular and necessary it is here.

[tinythinker]

JP has a different culture going on which mitigates a lot of our issues, so our issues don't even exist to begin with. We want something fixed which JP doesn't need fixed. Look no further than "Hello" for proof; NA/EU want a specialized "I'm Ready" quick chat function added, the JPs client "Hello" translates closer to that already which is why it's even used that way to begin with. Since they don't need an "I'm Ready" quickchat, we don't get one, despite it being a frequent suggestion and requiring very little work to actually implement. They could even just change the localization of "Hello" to "I'm Ready", but nope... The localization team would rather throw another Beta Wolf on us. That title being another case of "Well, it's not an issue in JP... So...". Rival Wings need a Roulette to help with pops? What do you mean, it's frequently active on JP, no adjustment required. 24 player Frontlines? Not popular in JP so say goodbye to it, doesn't matter how popular and necessary it is here.

PvP is balanced around the Japanese player base? If so, I guess that help makes some sense of many things.

Also as stated that could some beneficial to NA/EU changes would be unlikely.

Curious though why Japanese players don't need help getting Rival Wings together...

[Nalien]

Curious though why Japanese players don't need help getting Rival Wings together...

It's funny they do what the japan player base wants and not north america player base which is bigger than the japan player base.

The Japanese player base is simply far more active in PvP than NA/EU, if you want to get a quick idea of just how much so, compare the top 100 for Feast for each region. They're far more competitive and active, and as such they don't have the same issues we have. No idea of the actual numbers of course, but I'd say the PvP playerbase in Japan is bigger than NA and certainly bigger than EU, probably even NA/EU combined, just based off Rival Wings (hint: they never needed a specialist discord to get that popping). Throw in a lack of a language barrier, which has always resulted in JP seemingly getting preferential treatment from SE, even as far back as XI, and yeah... That's not to say they completely ignore NA/EU, with PvE they certainly do listen, it just maybe takes a bit longer, but with PvP? I can't think of anything remotely substantial, granted 24 being gutted might be souring my perception somewhat.

But yeah, JP is far more active, so most of our issues don't apply. Queue times? Not an issue. Bad players? A bigger, more active playerbase dilutes them out. Culturally I believe they're also more likely to look down on such behavior, so they've got that going for them too. Over here? Not sure anybody really cares... About bad players, queue times, piss poor latency in PvP instances, PvP actions in general, any of it... One or two posts every now and then, that'll get a tiny bit of traction, but no one really cares... Someone posts low tier bait about emote abuse in Frontlines though? Oh boy hold on to your pants, cos that sh*ts clearly more important than the communities fairly unanimous disdain towards most of the 5.1x changes... Honestly I look at that and I'm not really surprised that SE ignores this section... Were I in their shoes, I'd ban emotes from PvP just to spite the idiots who signal boost a thread like that...