Issues enjoying RDM

[JohnnyDevo]

-snip-

2 things:
1) I love you for this post
2) what is that gif in your sig from?

[SaberMaxwell]

2 things:
1) I love you for this post
2) what is that gif in your sig from?

1) Thank you <3
2) It's from Fate Specifically Tamamo, Nero, and their master from Fate Extella (a video game) \o/

[Alucard135]

snip

It's a good post and all, but I don't think it's a good idea to link to "what must not be named" website.

[SaberMaxwell]

It's a good post and all, but I don't think it's a good idea to link to "what must not be named" website.

You're right, it's just difficult to actually argue a point when statistics are unspeakable. If I get banned for it, I'll get banned, just remember me in the afterlife ;w;

[LauraAdalena]

Honestly, just wanted to say one thing.

I hope that Square Enix does not touch Verraise and Vercure for several reasons.

1) Lore/Immersion:

Your specialization talk feels like a false equivocation. A better comparison would be a class specializing in just damage and expecting it to raise I feel like. However, I don't think that VerRaise should be a key part to the immersion. We have other support skills, we are still the best DPS for content soloing such as POTD, old primals, and it doesn't have anything at all to do with Raise, it's all about vercure and a very high potency start in its opener. VerRaise, if removed, should not affect the lore/immersion.

The rest of it is mostly opinion which is fine. And most of your facts are alight, However...

And last but not least: Maybe Red Mage is not your thing? If you really want to take away Verraise/Vercure - a core part of RDM - to turn it into something that this profession never was meant to be...

I get that you seem to have this idea that "if RDM is just damage, it's not RDM". I feel like that's a very very small classification and telling people a job they enjoy is not for them just because they want one skill gone is a very shallow reason. (Depending on the skill that is) I, personally, am on the fence. I'd like to strike a balance between almost as much damage as BLM and having a raise. However, telling someone the class "may not be for them" just because of red mage is not just damage putting far too much weight on the skill. That's like telling someone "if you don't like rescue, healing might not be for you" or "if using reprisal is something you dislike then maybe tanking isn't for you." If someone is asking for verraise removed, this isn't a bad thing but just an idea/suggestion. This doesn't have to be the way its dealt with and most of the people I see here are suggesting it saying if they put so much weight on it why not remove it and not saying they loathe it.

I love the class, and I love the power of raising, but saying that I also understand people's gripes and understand what's actually important to the class and makes it flow.

[JohnnyDevo]

To me, the damage difference is perfect and justified. Why? Red Mage is always supposed to be the "Jack of all trades, but the master of none". Since 1987, when it has been introduced in the first Final Fantasy.

That's fine and all, but why should our damage suffer for it?

In the context of XIV:
Red mages have white magic. They don't do it as well as a white mage. In fact, use only white magic and you'll do horrid dps.
Red mages have black magic. They don't do it as well as a black mage. In fact, use only black magic and you'll do horrid dps.
Red mages have weaponskills. They don't do it as well as a melee dps. In fact, use only weaponskills and you'll do horrid dps.

There's your "master of none". A red mage in the context of XIV is a master of none of those disciplines.

Why, then, would it also be necessary to suffer in damage when the RDM is using all of it? "Because RDM has always historically been weaker"? That doesn't fly in an MMO. I'm not saying RDM should deal more damage than BLM or MNK, just that the damage output should properly reflect the utility it brings. But right now, the utility is vercure, verraise, and embolden. The first is a direct loss to ever use, and is far less efficient than a healer using the same amount of time, and they shouldn't even have to use a gcd to heal with all their abilities. It's best used to proc dualcast during downtime, which makes it more of a dps button. The second becomes actual advantage once 3 deaths in a short period have occurred, which is either a situation where you're probably wiping due to a dps check, or the content is not where you should be determining class balance. The third, therefore, is our only tangible utility in high-end content, and as shown with links to logs, it does not bring us to where you'd expect.

Now, I do agree that I don't want them to delete vercure or verraise. I do love RDM and its flavor, and getting rid of its beneficial white magic just feels wrong. I would just prefer if it doesn't cost me my enjoyment of the game in the context of XIV as it is. I would want them to change it so that they don't need to use it as a reason to hold us back.

[Zarabeth]

As RDM main I'm saddened by our aoe skills now. It feels like it takes forever to hit 100 and Moulinet is just.......not satisfying. Single target is still fine. I don't get people complaining about verraise. It's very handy and can keep a party from wiping now and then. In Eureka it's amazing for fast raises. I can see ignoring it for the raids if dps is needed more. A BLM can out dps a RDM anytime. So I take the view that if a BLM goes down it's better to get them up quickly so the PARTY doesn't suffer.

RDM is supposed to be jack of all trades master of none as mentioned in the post above mine. I think if more people worried about the party as a whole rather than their own dps all the time things would go a bit better for all.

[Archwizard]

Give Raise to all the casters

Here's the thing: That solves nothing.

The problem isn't that RDM is the only caster with Raise -- hell, SMN actually has it too. The only one this comes out to a benefit to is BLM, who is already in a good spot, and you don't need to give it a Raise to justify buffing everyone else.
Nor is the problem even that there is a "Raise Tax"; we all know regardless of Raise that BLM will be balanced higher due to lack of other utility, and the fact that raids need someone to focus single-target buffs on for max rDPS (where BLM is the only viable non-melee in that regard).

The problem... is that Raise is nowhere near as high value as the devs seem to think it's worth.

So, the general assumption a lot of players run with is that as raid groups advance out of the progression stages, the value of Raise gets lower and lower because people die less and less. Raise doesn't have a static value, and balancing a job around that means its value shifts, which means the value of RDM's utility goes down in favor of a more damage-heavy job. This assumption is true, historically speaking.
As was put to me recently, however, that leaves out one vital thing, particularly in the current tier of Savage content: If ever you need to Raise, you probably need or are about to wipe anyway. Even having Raise be Swift- or Dualcast would not help, because either too many existing mechanics require every player already be alive to prevent a wipe in fights with next to no recovery time (like Pulse of the Land, Paradise Regained, Black Smokers, Tsunami, Stormy Horizon, etc), or feature DPS checks which Weakness would already prevent you from beating anyway.

So we come out to two possibilities here.
One, that Raise should be considered to have zero damage value and those with it be balanced accordingly. The immediate argument becomes that Raise should be a role action for casters (so that in lower-end content a RDM/SMN doesn't push a BLM out for lacking Raise), but I also find that to be an unsatisfying option since it runs under an assumption that is fundamentally false, only situationally true.
Two, that Raise instead only occur the grander part of its damage "tax" on the caster if and when it's actually used. While this doesn't immediately lead into BLM getting a Raise, it does provide more options for those that do -- particularly RDM whose gimmick seems to be nigh-infinite access to it -- while leaving the leeway to increase their base damage and that BLM, being a job without a Raise, retains a higher ceiling. This is something that may largely be easier to implement, as SMN already uses a similar principle, often using Swiftcast as part of its rotation.

For example in this case: Put Verraise on a charge-based system for RDM, but have it share its CD with a damage skill of some variety -- particularly one that would greatly increase DPS value during one of the aforementioned DPS checks. In Savage raid compositions RDM could remain competitive by spending all charges on the damage skill, but would incur a penalty on their utility as a result. Likewise, in any queued content, you could simply hold Verraise if you don't trust your group, while still having the charge timer to decide if you want to risk for reward instead.

[Seabhacgra]

When I came back to the game after abandoning the smoldering ashes of WoW,.. I had my old Ninja to play from ARR,.. that didn't feel right.. played several other jobs and fell in love with the Red Mage. Played my Red Mage all the way to ShadowBringers and up to level 80. But while I love the mythos and feel and play of my Red Mage, I no longer feel like I can play it consistently. Not when my Dancer, arguable the lowest DPS role, can do quite a bit more DPS than my Red Mage. They both have comparable gear and I put the same effort into them both, but my Red falls behind. I'm not saying RDM needs to be on par with black mage by any means, but they should NOT be taxed so much for having a heal that is almost as weak as my Dancer's heal, and a Raise that is only situationally used. Right now I play my RDM from time to time is all, and I MISS it! but when I can switch to my 80 BLM and put in half the effort (I suck at BLM by the way) and get twice the results as my RDM .. well you get the picture.. /rantoff thanks for the ear..

[Leidiriv]

Well, you'll all be happy to know that they're "increasing firepower considerably" for RDM in 5 days. This paired with the Acceleration change should have us up to snuff in no time at all.