crafting is gone

[Fluffernuff]

I’m fine with it either way honestly. Whether it’s hard rng, light rng, or skill....as long as endgame crafting has been improved into something players can be proud of doing, and is not a phone game where you’re guaranteed to always win, its a good thing. And you know what? This is how it should be.

Normal recipes/leveling recipes should be easier for newcoming crafters or casual crafters. Endgame should be serious territory, for competitive crafters or hardcore crafters. I’m really grateful for the FFXIV crafting team finally listening to vet crafters and giving them what they want instead of catering to only casual players this time.

For that, they have earned a lot of respect.

"RNG" and "Competitive" dont belong in the same system. Nor is RNG is a show of skill. Nor do I like being punished for doing everything properly and through no fault of my own. The 2 are actually mutually exclusive and diametrically opposed. you cannot have both.


So on one hand, i do appreciate effort (if we consider "paying attention" effort) being needed to reliably craft end game items.
on the other, I do NOT appreciate RNG being the short-sighted, hamfisted tool to do so. It is the absolute lowest, least effort, and worst designed "difficulty" we could have possibly gotten.

Put also looking at our base system, there is not much they can do other than forcing an RNG wall on us without completely uprooting and gutting the system in it's entirety, or taking several patches to do so.


We went over apples and orange comparisons to savage raiding. so this is dubious by comparison, but imagine for a second that instead of an enrage timer, the boss has a 1% chance to use their enrage every second(or server tick or whatever) of the fight. you could literally wipe at any given moment, regardless of how hardcore, perfect, skilled, or effort you put in. just bad RNG. You drew the "poor" condition. it would be a total disaster of a system.

I do not want to see that be the direction, goal, or core of crafting. Or any system, really.


RNG should exist for risk/reward and NOT success/failure



Honestly, I would like to see players rewarded by the proper use of abilities- managing CP, knowing what abilities would be best, mitigating failure,

and the reward being that they can craft higher tiered items with lower tiered tools and equipment. not requiring melds; and that gear and melds in ADDITION to that ability can allow you to more easily automate the system through macros and such.

in a sense, needing both to automate, and needing one or the other to merely find success

[CookiesNCreams]

@Fluffernuff

Well, I’m not going to go back and forth with you over whether RNG = difficult or not, we clearly disagree. So let’s agree to disagree. Conversations about RNG never go anywhere or reach a conclusion/solution. Like, ever.

As for Yoshida’s choice of implementing procs/RNG in endgame crafting...yeah, I would prefer it be skill based, but the way the crafting system is set up, it seems like that isn’t possible, at least, technically. So, they’re left with two choices. Either make endgame RNG or make it mindlessly easy to where even a 12 year old that plays Fortnite can HQ something. Obviously the former is going to be preferred when given a choice. Endgame in my opinion is taking a wonderful turn. Things will be just like ARR and HW again endgame-wise.

Sorry, but I just don’t believe that endgame content should be easy. Raiding endgame shouldn’t be easy, so crafting shouldn’t either. 5.1 is going to be awesome.

[Maeka]

Puh-leaze.

Most of those greyed out buttons were copies of the same thing, or at least skills that were only 5% this, or 10 effectiveness that.

Did we really need Basic Synthesis, Careful Synthesis, Careful Synthesis II and Careful Synthesis III, for example?

Who would use CS or CS II over CSIII?

Now that we have tech and mechanics for upgrading a skill with traits, they decided to go that route. So basically you get rid of 3 redundant buttons by combining them all into 1.

[Ultimatecalibur]

One thing to remember is that 5.2 is when the "hard" crafts and record boards will be added. We will likely be looking a additional changes come 5.2.

Who would use CS or CS II over CSIII?

The main reason to use CS II over CSIII was to save CP. This is why both skills are still being kept. CS II is just getting a name change to Basic Synthesis while CS III is dropping the numerals.

[Maeka]

One thing to remember is that 5.2 is when the "hard" crafts and record boards will be added. We will likely be looking a additional changes come 5.2.



The main reason to use CS II over CSIII was to save CP. This is why both skills are still being kept. CS II is just getting a name change to Basic Synthesis while CS III is dropping the numerals.

Well, ok, fine. But yeah, the only thing that Changing Basic Synth into CS II does is make it so you don't need to level Weaver to get CSI and then wait until CSII just get away from having to Steady Hands + Basic Synth... which does absolutely nothing to endgame crafting because by then everybody had CSII and CSIII.

[hydralus]

There'll be efficient 100% macros now and forever. Especially since they made it so HQ materials get you 60-75% of the way to HQ already. ShB made crafting easier than ever and I don't see them changing that.

[CookiesNCreams]

There'll be efficient 100% macros now and forever. Especially since they made it so HQ materials get you 60-75% of the way to HQ already. ShB made crafting easier than ever and I don't see them changing that.

Explain to me how you can 100% efficiently macro moves that proc..? That’s like saying you can 100% efficiently macro a Discerning Eye gathering rotation. It’s impossible because it’s rng. As I’ve said previously, he literally said that procs are required to complete/HQ crafts. To imply otherwise would mean you can somehow manipulate FFXIV’s rng. I’m sure I don’t need to elaborate how ridiculous that is. I just feel like this is a case of some folks only hearing what they want to hear.

I would only believe that if he outright says macros will still be used endgame. But, he also says he doesn’t want them to be used for endgame recipes. Sorry, but the 100% macro nonsense seems like it’ll finally end come 5.1. Who knows, maybe I’m wrong, but after what was said, I really doubt it.

[hydralus]

he literally said that procs are required to complete/HQ crafts.

I'll believe it when I see it, but if that changes a 100% macro to a 98% macro, people are still gonna macro and eat that 2% chance to fail.

I still say it'll be easier than ever. With what they did with desynth and the MSQ solo duties, what makes anyone think they'll make crafting more difficult? But if I am wrong, I'll eat my hat. Assuming I can still make one.

[Ariane]

There'll be efficient 100% macros now and forever. Especially since they made it so HQ materials get you 60-75% of the way to HQ already. ShB made crafting easier than ever and I don't see them changing that.

Not according to Yoshi-P. He says they want to make high end crafts not possible with macros because you have to use procs.

[Kirsten_Rev]

Not according to Yoshi-P. He says they want to make high end crafts not possible with macros because you have to use procs.

SE has a long history of making statements that don't turn out to be true, so I'll believe this when I see it. My guess is that, best-case, we won't see 100% HQ chances starting with all NQ ingredients via a macro. But right now, using HQ ingredients and with modest non-overmelded gear, it's trivial to HQ the highest-tier recipes in the game without even firing off Byregot's Blessing. There is no way it won't be possible to continue macro'ing 100% chances for top-tier crafters using HQ ingredients.

There's a chance this won't be true down the road, of course, but SE would need to make failures a little less painful in order to facilitate it. Particularly given that they're removing Reclaim, a NQ completion is basically equivalent to a failure right now because of how terribad NQ items are relative to anything else (the NQ Level 80 Facet weapon for WHM, for instance, is worse than the HQ Level 70 White Oak cane that you get as a reward right at the beginning of the Shadowbringers story). I think SE knows that forcing players to rely to some extent on RNG, with failure being tantamount to a complete loss of ingredients, isn't a good approach.