crafting is gone

[Arthrun]

It'll be interesting if every high level synth has one or more Good or Excellent, and you MUST use them to get HQ results. Macros would fail since they can't react to those.

I actually think that is a really good thing for end game crafting over all.

[Nihility]

It'll be interesting if every high level synth has one or more Good or Excellent, and you MUST use them to get HQ results. Macros would fail since they can't react to those.

I think this is another case of there intention being what they said but reality being different.
Nothing there is really a change that makes crafting some dynamic, adjusting to the situation game

It looks like for the most part all it will accomplish is macros will be ~30% shorter and stat requirements will be a lot lower to get same quality as current system
Unless crafting is literally peppered with bad procs forcing you to stop and use careful observation manual crafting will definitely be a lot easier to handle but still not optimal

[Fluffernuff]

I actually think that is a really good thing for end game crafting over all.

it is and it isn't.

macros for crafting exist mostly for convenience than to bypass any difficulty. I mean, sure, up to this point in ShB are abilities have been potent enough for macros to exiast and make the highest crafts without fear. I dont think most people, even those not totally into crafting want the highest tier items and premium exclusives to be automated, especially on day one. however;

...flip this coin over, and I have to ask; How many people would actually be HAPPY or have FUN and ENJOY manually pressing the same 5 actions for 24 steps and NEEDING to look out for that good/excellent....



.....for every
single
robe
lettuce
salad

for every member of your static for raid day. because youre the only person that bothers to have crafting. WITH macros, just a super casual 3 hour session for 2 raid days... that takes 1-2 hours. like and hour and a half. to craft. and thats WITH a macro. without downtime. you have to invest 1.5 hours sitting in place watching bars fill... for a total of 6 hours of raiding. per week. imagine needing to be the benefactor for more sessions. for longer. a dedicated "endgame" FC crafter that plays crafter as their primary job. that does this for multiple teams. that take commisions for sets (current HQ sets, levekits, etc.) for multiple people.

and apparently its a universally good change to remove the ability to have macros be effective for something? perhaps we should remove quick synth in 5.15, too. wouldnt wanna make crafting in bulk too hands-off, after all.

there's probably a middle man here and a compromise to be had. specifically in the case of things MEANT to be in bulk like consumables. I don't know. but I don't think scorched earth is a very good policy. for anything, really. even outside the game. But I will always advocate for a means not necessarily to "automate", but to remove the manual from labor.

[Barraind]

I dont mind not being able to macro the super high-end crafting stuff thats actually worth the trouble.

Its the seven billion intermediate steps that suck.

You still cant quick synth some of the level 70 sub-combines. It was easier to just sell off half my stash of SB tomestone craft mats than combine them into lumbers, leather, ingots, ect.

Thankfully, theyre fixing quick synth fails, but the TIME involved is still absurd. It takes 10-12 minutes to QS a stack of 99 things.

That leads us into the worst offender:

Workshop crafting. Workshop crafting is the most awful piece of garbage around,


Like, I spent 7 hours last night making Crypto Lumber and Pure Titanium Ingots.
Because they cant be quick synthed.
They're level 70.
And you need hundreds of them.
And you dont need the lumber hq'd. And really, you dont need the Ore HQ'd. but you DO need them 100% HQ to press the reuse button, which is the only thing you care about with those.
Thankfully I was groggy from anasthesia and about the only thing I could do without my brain hurting was press 'Synthesize' and the macro called 'Crypto/PTO'. Didnt even fish for reuse and reclaim the non-reuse ones. Because ohgodwhy.

I'm then going to need to have 3 people sit in my workshop while clicked on something that ensures they wont be force-disconnected while they afk for 3 hours to turn that stuff into anything we can use.

SDFGVBHNJMK<L>MNBVCDXDFTSRH . My feeling on workshop crafting is mostly words I cant say on these boards, strung together to form new portmanfanities.

Wanna bet within a week we have people figuring out macros again that work around these issues?

I'll have them within a couple hours, assuming its not impossible without hitting good multiple times a craft AND using those abilities specifically.

[Niyuka]

Wanna bet within a week we have people figuring out macros again that work around these issues? Every time SE tries to make something easier on one side, and more interesting on the other, it just becomes easier.

[Callinon]

Wanna bet within a week we have people figuring out macros again that work around these issues? Every time SE tries to make something easier on one side, and more interesting on the other, it just becomes easier.

It's still just math. It'll take the sim developers a few days to update their models but yeah... then you just do math.

[RyuSaarva]

I dont see it that way at all.

They made some interesting decisions, but a lot of the removed actions havent been relevant.



CZ is also going to be noticed, but I dont think its going to be that bad. Worst case, we have to make up for 14-22 CP at best somewhere, and I think MuMe and Inno changes do that.

Piece By Piece used to be good, but since it was capped at 1k, it stopped being useful.

Rumination hasnt been used for a couple expansions, and I dont think ive ever cross classed it since i had to cut something.

Ingen and Ingen 2 look like they're turning into Ingen2, and is a wash.

MaMa has been dead for a while, New MuMe is just so much better.

They did exactly what I figured they would with steady hand, except hasty touch is now even worse than it was before.

Removing the higher normal touches only impacts lower end crafters. Every touch that isnt Prudent, Prep or DelSynth is already dead.

Manip 1 and Masters Mend 1 are now the same thing (technically current Manip 1 is slightly better), so killing manip 1 and Mend 2 (who ever uses that?) makes sense.

MuMe actually has a reason to exist (I have to match it better but your opener is now most likely MuMe IQ Inno Delicate ... Manip) and moving IQ/Inno to different effects is good, and you'll probably see inno worked into every rotation.

Final Appraisal is actually probably okay in places you cant Trained Eye to 100%. Its going to let you 'end' with a delicate and have a chance to reclaim.

Trained eye change is FANTASTIC. FAN. TAS. TIC.


Careful Observation: I have no idea unless it costs 0, and then is only going to be "good" with ObsFoc, which are a LOT less good now that CZ isnt around, and it keeps its same non-synergy with Inno, which is probably going to be somewhere we get CP savings. I guess it can turn scrips into CP if you fish for Tricks, but I have problems with that.




Seem to have missed that in the chunk of "success increased to 100%, CP cost +1/5 of SH2" actions!

you are only thinking about your slow macros, real crafters use a lot more skills to make low level hq items fast

[Barraind]

real crafters use a lot more skills to make low level hq items fast

Yeah, pressing trained eye is going to be super hard and complex to make low level items hq,

Wanna bet within a week we have people figuring out macros again that work around these issues?

got bored quick synthing.

Heres the likely to work upgraded rotation for current gear.


Opener: MuMe, IQ, Ingen, Obs, FocS, 2 Delicate
Body: Manip, WasteNot, Ingen, Inno, 4 Prep, Ingen, BasicT
Closer: Byregot, Careful


This has a requirement of 1 hq sub-combine and 607 CP (the requirements I have in my current macro). 19 steps.

No room for Reuse though. Reuse is probably a no-go unless you start almost completely HQ mats or some of the assumed numbers are lower than actual (If its MuMe, you can save 20 CP and switch a Delicate in the opener to an Obsfoc in the closer, or 25 CP if you change it to a 2nd careful. If its Inno or Ingen, you can save the basic touch, but you're going to need to save 1 opener action, 2 actions elsewhere or 1 and 1 in order to get another meaningful Touchtype action).

With 611 CP base (which is easy to do) you can get another inno before basic/byregot/careful, but that doesnt let you get away with fewer HQ mats.
with 618 CP, you can change careful to basic and add a strides before blessing, but that likely doesnt remove the need for 1 hq mat.

This DOES assume Ingenuity will be within 75-80% efficacy as it is at present. If it DOESNT work that way, you will need either 3 HQ sub-mats or you'll need more good procs than you'll ever get on a single craft. If it works better than expected, you might be able to get away with 0 hq mats if you drop reuse.

Similarly, if MuMe AND Ingen are better than expected, you can use the 611 or 618 CP rotations and change a delicate for careful.

And finally, if you're a specialist, you can use 7 cp less if you want to throw delineations at it. (you can actually save more than 7, but they arent necessary and i consider them a waste)



There will be better rotations on Tuesday, but this -should- work for now.

[Alenonimo]

Crafting needed a real revamp. None of the biggest crafter players even bothered with manual crafting, because it was so stupidly complex. Macros all the way.

Having a much simplified system will make crafting fun again and we'll be much less dependant on crafting macros.

There was a crazy dude on reddit complaining that his 42 macros wouldn't work anymore. 42. I only need 10! :P

[Barraind]

There was a crazy dude on reddit complaining that his 42 macros wouldn't work anymore. 42. I only need 10

I have nfi what you need 42 for.


Mine currently are:

5.05 70 durability (2 buttons)
5.05 35 durability (2 buttons, for HQ'ing those stupid subcombines)
NQ 5.05 base mats (to skip HQ'ing those stupid subcombines)
Crypto/PTO Reuse
GRRRRRRRR (3 careful synth for level 74+ stuff you dont need hq, because one set of them doesnt complete after 2)
40 durability ShB (Yellow Scrip alchemist stuff)
80dur level 80 (level 79/80 white gear)
Onyx (To HQ onyx so you dont have to hq anything else in onyx recipes)

HW crafting 70dura (Reuse macro for level 60 glam)
SB crafting 70dura (Reuse macro for level 70 glam)
ARR crafting 70dura (Reuse macro for level 50 glam)

Weekly (for custom deliveries)
Syrup (For syrup scrips)

2 Reduce/reuse/recycle macros for stuff that uses really expensive primal mats.



Information (a macro that tells me what my CP needs to be for the 5.05 macros to work correctly in case I ever forget wtf I was doing)

and the best one:


? Info (A macro that tells me how I color coded all my macros in case I ever forget what I was doing)

/echo BLACK macros are for 70 durability current era items.
/echo YELLOW macros are for 35 durability current era items
/echo BLUE macros are for current era scrip turnins
/echo RED macros are for custom deliveries
/echo RING macros are for a specific HQ item
/echo TEAL macros are reuse macros for workshops
/echo PURPLE macros are for force NQ'ing crafts
/echo BREAD macros are the start of REUSE / RECLAIM macros

I have never used either of the trained eye moves because they are not good enough to even put on my hud when you can just reach 100% quality with 1-3 touch skills.

Cant roll my eyes hard enough at this. Its not only a waste of actions to not use Trained on anything that isnt a waste of time to HQ at present, but its a guaranteed max quality in 5.1.