crafting is gone

[Fluffernuff]

I actually think that is a really good thing for end game crafting over all.

it is and it isn't.

macros for crafting exist mostly for convenience than to bypass any difficulty. I mean, sure, up to this point in ShB are abilities have been potent enough for macros to exiast and make the highest crafts without fear. I dont think most people, even those not totally into crafting want the highest tier items and premium exclusives to be automated, especially on day one. however;

...flip this coin over, and I have to ask; How many people would actually be HAPPY or have FUN and ENJOY manually pressing the same 5 actions for 24 steps and NEEDING to look out for that good/excellent....



.....for every
single
robe
lettuce
salad

for every member of your static for raid day. because youre the only person that bothers to have crafting. WITH macros, just a super casual 3 hour session for 2 raid days... that takes 1-2 hours. like and hour and a half. to craft. and thats WITH a macro. without downtime. you have to invest 1.5 hours sitting in place watching bars fill... for a total of 6 hours of raiding. per week. imagine needing to be the benefactor for more sessions. for longer. a dedicated "endgame" FC crafter that plays crafter as their primary job. that does this for multiple teams. that take commisions for sets (current HQ sets, levekits, etc.) for multiple people.

and apparently its a universally good change to remove the ability to have macros be effective for something? perhaps we should remove quick synth in 5.15, too. wouldnt wanna make crafting in bulk too hands-off, after all.

there's probably a middle man here and a compromise to be had. specifically in the case of things MEANT to be in bulk like consumables. I don't know. but I don't think scorched earth is a very good policy. for anything, really. even outside the game. But I will always advocate for a means not necessarily to "automate", but to remove the manual from labor.

[Nihility]

It'll be interesting if every high level synth has one or more Good or Excellent, and you MUST use them to get HQ results. Macros would fail since they can't react to those.

I think this is another case of there intention being what they said but reality being different.
Nothing there is really a change that makes crafting some dynamic, adjusting to the situation game

It looks like for the most part all it will accomplish is macros will be ~30% shorter and stat requirements will be a lot lower to get same quality as current system
Unless crafting is literally peppered with bad procs forcing you to stop and use careful observation manual crafting will definitely be a lot easier to handle but still not optimal

[Barraind]

Check out the Dengeki interview with Yoshida that was posted on reddit today. Good news for hardcore and vet crafters. Endgame recipes will actually require thought, and not mindless macros. 5.1 is everything we ever wanted, lol.

I'm not sold just looking at the actions.

The only proc based actions we're seeing will come in Tricks, Patient touch, and Intensive Synth.

If success is reliant on any of those, the world might as well have ended, because thats back to the point where you're going to just randomly fail because you didnt get 2+ goods in 14 actions.

[CookiesNCreams]

I'm not sold just looking at the actions.

The only proc based actions we're seeing will come in Tricks, Patient touch, and Intensive Synth.

If success is reliant on any of those, the world might as well have ended, because thats back to the point where you're going to just randomly fail because you didnt get 2+ goods in 14 actions.

Oh, good point lol. Well, I welcome difficult endgame crafting, but I was hoping for a more skill based endgame. Rather than RNG being a huge factor again. That just tells me that they cannot figure out a way to make crafting skill based, so, they decided to make normal crafting easy and endgame crafting RNG again.

I mean, I’ll take it. It’s better than mindless macros and easy endgame crafting honestly. Endgame shouldn’t be easy, so if they have to implement RNG to make that happen, then so be it. Welcome back, rng lol.

[Barraind]

I dont mind not being able to macro the super high-end crafting stuff thats actually worth the trouble.

Its the seven billion intermediate steps that suck.

You still cant quick synth some of the level 70 sub-combines. It was easier to just sell off half my stash of SB tomestone craft mats than combine them into lumbers, leather, ingots, ect.

Thankfully, theyre fixing quick synth fails, but the TIME involved is still absurd. It takes 10-12 minutes to QS a stack of 99 things.

That leads us into the worst offender:

Workshop crafting. Workshop crafting is the most awful piece of garbage around,


Like, I spent 7 hours last night making Crypto Lumber and Pure Titanium Ingots.
Because they cant be quick synthed.
They're level 70.
And you need hundreds of them.
And you dont need the lumber hq'd. And really, you dont need the Ore HQ'd. but you DO need them 100% HQ to press the reuse button, which is the only thing you care about with those.
Thankfully I was groggy from anasthesia and about the only thing I could do without my brain hurting was press 'Synthesize' and the macro called 'Crypto/PTO'. Didnt even fish for reuse and reclaim the non-reuse ones. Because ohgodwhy.

I'm then going to need to have 3 people sit in my workshop while clicked on something that ensures they wont be force-disconnected while they afk for 3 hours to turn that stuff into anything we can use.

SDFGVBHNJMK<L>MNBVCDXDFTSRH . My feeling on workshop crafting is mostly words I cant say on these boards, strung together to form new portmanfanities.

Wanna bet within a week we have people figuring out macros again that work around these issues?

I'll have them within a couple hours, assuming its not impossible without hitting good multiple times a craft AND using those abilities specifically.

[Niyuka]

Wanna bet within a week we have people figuring out macros again that work around these issues? Every time SE tries to make something easier on one side, and more interesting on the other, it just becomes easier.

[Callinon]

Wanna bet within a week we have people figuring out macros again that work around these issues? Every time SE tries to make something easier on one side, and more interesting on the other, it just becomes easier.

It's still just math. It'll take the sim developers a few days to update their models but yeah... then you just do math.

[CookiesNCreams]

Wanna bet within a week we have people figuring out macros again that work around these issues? Every time SE tries to make something easier on one side, and more interesting on the other, it just becomes easier.

Except Square Enix has never went out and said they would make endgame more difficult and thought oriented. This time, they are, for once. Not sure why people think they can cheese through this new proc system and hope a macro will come and save the day. Maybe it’s a case of only seeing what you want to hear? He’s made it pretty clear that procs are required to finish (and HQ) a craft that is endgame. I’m not making this up. He literally said, it is, required.

They seem to forget what procs are. For example, during gathering (at the moment anyway) most optimal rotations prefer that Discerning Eye procs. Meaning, it does not always appear, in other words, rng would be back. To imply you can macro RNG (at least conveniently) is quite silly. To say otherwise implies you can somehow manipulate FFXIV’s rng, which, sounds ridiculous. This isn’t pokemon.

I’m still kind of bummed that rng is back (supposedly):, and it’s not skill oriented (maybe in 6.0 they will), but if RNG is what needs to be done to make endgame not guaranteed, I welcome it.

[Barraind]

real crafters use a lot more skills to make low level hq items fast

Yeah, pressing trained eye is going to be super hard and complex to make low level items hq,

Wanna bet within a week we have people figuring out macros again that work around these issues?

got bored quick synthing.

Heres the likely to work upgraded rotation for current gear.


Opener: MuMe, IQ, Ingen, Obs, FocS, 2 Delicate
Body: Manip, WasteNot, Ingen, Inno, 4 Prep, Ingen, BasicT
Closer: Byregot, Careful


This has a requirement of 1 hq sub-combine and 607 CP (the requirements I have in my current macro). 19 steps.

No room for Reuse though. Reuse is probably a no-go unless you start almost completely HQ mats or some of the assumed numbers are lower than actual (If its MuMe, you can save 20 CP and switch a Delicate in the opener to an Obsfoc in the closer, or 25 CP if you change it to a 2nd careful. If its Inno or Ingen, you can save the basic touch, but you're going to need to save 1 opener action, 2 actions elsewhere or 1 and 1 in order to get another meaningful Touchtype action).

With 611 CP base (which is easy to do) you can get another inno before basic/byregot/careful, but that doesnt let you get away with fewer HQ mats.
with 618 CP, you can change careful to basic and add a strides before blessing, but that likely doesnt remove the need for 1 hq mat.

This DOES assume Ingenuity will be within 75-80% efficacy as it is at present. If it DOESNT work that way, you will need either 3 HQ sub-mats or you'll need more good procs than you'll ever get on a single craft. If it works better than expected, you might be able to get away with 0 hq mats if you drop reuse.

Similarly, if MuMe AND Ingen are better than expected, you can use the 611 or 618 CP rotations and change a delicate for careful.

And finally, if you're a specialist, you can use 7 cp less if you want to throw delineations at it. (you can actually save more than 7, but they arent necessary and i consider them a waste)



There will be better rotations on Tuesday, but this -should- work for now.