crafting is gone

[XenabelleS]

Well, they mention in the Dengeki interview that endgame crafts will have procs for the first time ever, which, means you actually have to understand crafting to HQ endgame recipes. That, and the fact that quality requirements will undoubtedly be higher endgame. In other words, making it more difficult.

A welcome change tbh. Glad they listened.

It's not "more difficult." A RNG heavy endgame in crafting benefits :

a) those with deep pockets or a great deal of time that can afford to get the materials required to do a craft enough times to get a success
b) those with the best/most melded gear which also requires deep pockets or a great deal of time

So I'm not surprised you are happy. You'll be getting what you want. Crafting to mostly benefit those that are "hardcore". Congratulations.

[Liam_Harper]

Honestly why does crafting NEED to be difficult? It was a bloated mess and a pruning/massive changes were bound to happen. Most MMO's treat it as a secondary activity, while I do love it's more player involved that say WoW's set and forget method. This has to be the only MMO I've ever played where crafting has it's own "high end raider" class/mentality sort of player.

By that I mean any sort of change is "mah game is unplayable!".

No one said crafting needs to be difficult. The "high end raider mentality sort of player" crafter merely wants a small handful of challenging crafts at max level only, while you, the regular player can now enjoy your streamlined 1-80 leveling and access to the vast bulk of recipes in the game. Yes, you see difficult crafts as tedious or boring or a mess or w/e, we however enjoy it. Different preferences.

Why are people so selfish over this? We're asking for a small 1-2% section of crafting right at the top to cater to that challenge we enjoy and casual players are still up in arms because they see it as some sort of attack on crafting as an entirety and want access to the entire 100% for themselves. Let us have that tiny bit of content.

[CookiesNCreams]

No one said crafting needs to be difficult. The "high end raider mentality sort of player" crafter merely wants a small handful of challenging crafts at max level only, while you, the regular player can now enjoy your streamlined 1-80 leveling and access to the vast bulk of recipes in the game. Yes, you see difficult crafts as tedious or boring or a mess or w/e, we however enjoy it. Different preferences.

Why are people so selfish over this? We're asking for a small 1-2% section of crafting right at the top to cater to that challenge we enjoy and casual players are still up in arms because they see it as some sort of attack on crafting as an entirety and want access to the entire 100% for themselves. Let us have that tiny bit of content.

FFXIV seems to be the only game in existence where most of its community think they can drive out hardcore players and turn it into a casual only game, lol. Quite silly.... and It’s mostly trying to be pushed onto crafting the most because:

“OmG rIcH pLaYerS eliTiSt”
“cRafTiNg tOO haRD SE, PlS neRf 4 eAsY gIl maKinG”
“ItS nOT fAiR, hAStY tOuCh Is MeAN”.

Then they forget that Yoshida is a kind dude, and most likely will not “drive out” hardcore players because they say so. Casual players can have their own content, so hardcore players should too, even if it’s just 5%. It’s kind of a selfish mindset, really.

[Callinon]

I think the biggest problem is SE needed to do this a lot sooner like HW or SB and we are what 5 years in and finally they decided to clean up the crafting system, that's 5 years of ability bloat its bound to be a shock to the system seeing what looks like a gutting of skills being done.

Hopefully SE wont leave it so long the next time.

Honestly this. SB and ShB both saw significant ability pruning on combat classes, but there's never been any on crafting classes (unless you want to count the elemental abilities in ShB.. ok) and it's way WAY past time. If the different abilities actually mattered maybe it'd be ok to have 40 of them like we do right now, but most of the time one ability just obseletes another. But that's a thing we've been solving with combat classes for quite some time now.

FFXIV seems to be the only game in existence where most of its community think they can drive out hardcore players and turn it into a casual only game, lol.

You must not have played any other MMORPG... like ever. Because this is quite common in all of them.

Fun fact though: successful games are built on their casual audience, not the hardcores. Hardcore players are good to have around, don't get me wrong... it's good for the game that those players exist. But there aren't anywhere NEAR enough of them to sustain a product long term. Given that reality, skewing a game toward appealing to the casual player makes perfect sense.

[Vahlnir]

Fun fact though: successful games are built on their casual audience, not the hardcores. Hardcore players are good to have around, don't get me wrong... it's good for the game that those players exist. But there aren't anywhere NEAR enough of them to sustain a product long term. Given that reality, skewing a game toward appealing to the casual player makes perfect sense.

They just can't go overboard like Blizzard did with WoW. In its current state, WoW is basically a mobile app with some hardcore raiding attached. FF XIV isn't anywhere near that, nor will they be after these crafting changes, but it is a valid concern even if I don't necessarily agree with their (who you responded to) other points.

[CookiesNCreams]

Honestly this. SB and ShB both saw significant ability pruning on combat classes, but there's never been any on crafting classes (unless you want to count the elemental abilities in ShB.. ok) and it's way WAY past time. If the different abilities actually mattered maybe it'd be ok to have 40 of them like we do right now, but most of the time one ability just obseletes another. But that's a thing we've been solving with combat classes for quite some time now.



You must not have played any other MMORPG... like ever. Because this is quite common in all of them.

Fun fact though: successful games are built on their casual audience, not the hardcores. Hardcore players are good to have around, don't get me wrong... it's good for the game that those players exist. But there aren't anywhere NEAR enough of them to sustain a product long term. Given that reality, skewing a game toward appealing to the casual player makes perfect sense.

Yeah, that’s true. I’ve heard WildStar went that route, and it did pretty poorly. Thing is, that applies for games that only cater to hardcore players, without caring much for their casual players. Either that or at least 40% of the game is too hardcore. That’s a bit too harsh, even for me lol.

But, driving out your hardcore players isn’t optimal for maximizing sales. Also, there hasn’t been any statistical chart of FFXIV declining in 2.0 - 3.0 when crafting was super difficult, like, at all. And that’s likely because most of the game wasn’t hardcore, just the crafting.

For optimizing profits, no, driving out 100% of your hardcore players isn’t ideal, like, at all. Ideally, you’d want both players to be playing your game on a monthly basis.

[Barraind]

Most MMO's treat it as a secondary activity

Its probably because this MMO treats it as a primary activity (though its getting worse and worse as we go).

[CookiesNCreams]

Its probably because this MMO treats it as a primary activity (though its getting worse and worse as we go).

Check out the Dengeki interview with Yoshida that was posted on reddit today. Good news for hardcore and vet crafters. Endgame recipes will actually require thought, and not mindless macros. 5.1 is everything we ever wanted, lol.

[SamSmoot]

Check out the Dengeki interview with Yoshida that was posted on reddit today. Good news for hardcore and vet crafters. Endgame recipes will actually require thought, and not mindless macros. 5.1 is everything we ever wanted, lol.

It'll be interesting if every high level synth has one or more Good or Excellent, and you MUST use them to get HQ results. Macros would fail since they can't react to those.

[Arthrun]

It'll be interesting if every high level synth has one or more Good or Excellent, and you MUST use them to get HQ results. Macros would fail since they can't react to those.

I actually think that is a really good thing for end game crafting over all.