Thread: SMN 5.1 Job adjustments

Originally Posted by Miziliti

The thing that amaze me with how SE deals with SMN is that the job gets to be turn a complete 180 degree every expansion. From 3.X to 4.X to 5.X, job have never stay exactly the same. While I think it keeps the job being somewhat more exciting to play, I have also always hated the new iteration at the very beginning every time because of how bad it turned out to be and requires more fine tuning patch after patch.

To be fair, Machinist got hit by this, BLM got hit by this, now NIN got hit by this. Meanwhile, over in MNK land, they're basically asking for it to happen because the job is stuck in stagnation hell with the devs not really sure what to do with the class and their fumbling about in the dark while not changing the core rotation is also annoying that community.

What's really bad is 5.1's rotation was broken, in a weird way. Reducing the cooldown of trance means that you will innately advance ALL of your trance cycles by 3-5 seconds now. You can sit on it, but you probably won't outside of party coordination shenanigans. Which means Enkindle starts wandering, Aetherflow starts wandering, and Devotion, especially, will constantly come up during FBT now.

The class is...better? But it still has serious design issues and by fixing one problem, it introduced a completely different one.

And, now that EA 1 and 2 are their own GCDs, there is next to no reason for DWT to exist as it does, because you can easily get off all the oGCDs you need to during Egi Assaults. This is good, but it also further highlights how absolutely terribly designed DWT is at the moment, accentuating the necessity of merging Demi-Bahamut into DWT at this point.

Ultimately, I'd go so far as to say it more or less is proving Summoner definitely needs a major, ground-up rework like what Machinist got. But it's no longer a horrifically over-busy job with a ridiculously tight rotation that takes a lot of skill to execute. It just is also....well...broken, just in a different way.

Thankfully, the nature of how it's broken can be accounted for with player skill, and even if you don't account for it, the class is still functional, but all the timers are seriously just not lining up very well from my initial observations.

I'm curious what everyone elses' thoughts are.

I don’t feel much needs to be changed about SMN from a functional standpoint after they fix the current bug. Devotion needs to be moved and it would be nice if Earthen Armor triggered Further Ruin but otherwise SMN is in a fine spot considering the circumstances. You can weave EA into Bahamut or Phoenix but it’s not necessary to take those risks at all with proper EA and DWT management alongside Energy Drain/Siphon, don’t cap either and you’re good. Pet swaps are mostly redundant outside of AoE burst by the current numbers which I’d consider a plus too.

I’m content with this till the next expansion but I do want change regarding pets.

I tried it once today and it just felt somehow worse ? How do they keep doing that

Originally Posted by AngelicSnake

I tried it once today and it just felt somehow worse ? How do they keep doing that

I have a feeling they didn't even test the "changes" themselves before they implemented it, and rely on live feedback to see if they screwed up or not. As it is, I've given up on being a Summoner for the rest of this expansion. The headaches playing as one aren't worth it this time for now.

I love it. High difficulty high rewards. Big numbers only come if you play perfectly.

Originally Posted by Alym

I think it feels better from a button mashing standpoint, but these are the two biggest issues for me now. Granted, I've only run a couple dungeons so far, so my opinion may not be worth much yet.

The cds felt like they came up at weird times all over the place and I had a hard time getting into the flow of things rotationally. Additionally, DWT now just feels like two button presses to cast Deathflare. Or three button presses to Summon Bahamut. It's weird as hell.

If you DWT just to cast Flare you really need to learn the job again.

Originally Posted by ksuyen

If you DWT just to cast Flare you really need to learn the job again.

What do you use DWT for now that we easily weave with Egi Assaults and Ruin IV procs? It resets Tri-D, but that's passive on hitting DWT. There's no damage boost anymore so Ruin IIIs and DoTs are the same damage when used inside DWT as they are outside DWT. Using the entire duration just delays Bahamut.

I'm genuinely curious what there is to do inside DWT now.