Please let reduced GCDs scale with the base GCD (Attack Speed/SkS/SpS)

[Shurrikhan]

We presently have GCD weaponskills of reduced GCD of 1.5 or 1.2 seconds. These can be unique as a skill, as per Monk's Meditation, or unique to a particular effect, such as MCH's Hypercharge. However, these reduced GCDs do not scale with Skill Speed, Spell Speed, or Attack Speed in any way.

Please let them scale as would any other weaponskill. That is all.

If reducing MCH Hypercharge GCDs below 1.5 seconds would cause oGCD clipping early on, extend the effect instead to a 1.7 or 1.8-second GCD over 12 or 14 seconds, respectively, instead of its current 1.5-second GCD over 10 seconds. The result in either case will remain 2 GCDs spared over the duration. Wildfire would extend in turn, but at lower potency generation per hit such that it, too, has the same total effect. (Or, heck, since MCH is presently undertuned, anywhere between its old and scaled potency addition per hit.) To match, let Reassemble likewise scale with SkS.

Also no for SKS scale. I already see TONS of complaints how mch isn't ping friendly.

So having a larger weaving space for oGCD-weaving, just with SkS no longer being a waste stat, would somehow make it harder to weave skills? The point isn't to shrink the oGCD window; it's to make SkS not a trap stat.

[Endariel]

No.
For machinist, the proposed extended duration with 1.8 will ruin wildfire combo.

Also no for SKS scale. I already see TONS of complaints how mch isn't ping friendly.

[Vendalwind]

It simply would add options. Players could add SkS such that they would know they cant weave post 1.5 gcd standard skill, and if they do well they just havent gotten the full benefit of the substat (weave). And the SkS scaling could be proportionally smaller just as it is proportionally bigger with longer gcd skills. There is almost no reason not to do this. SkS would at maximum take maybe .1 off the .5 gcd anyways. I mean who stacks enough SkS to go frome 2.5 to 2 flat anyways? (1/5 proportional) These skills could still be untouched by haste (like gl, or huton) if needed, or have their base speed set such that with huton or gl 4 its .5

[Quor]

It simply would add options. Players could add SkS such that they would know they cant weave post 1.5 gcd standard skill, and if they do well they just havent gotten the full benefit of the substat (weave). And the SkS scaling could be proportionally smaller just as it is proportionally bigger with longer gcd skills. There is almost no reason not to do this. SkS would at maximum take maybe .1 off the .5 gcd anyways. I mean who stacks enough SkS to go frome 2.5 to 2 flat anyways? (1/5 proportional) These skills could still be untouched by haste (like gl, or huton) if needed, or have their base speed set such that with huton or gl 4 its .5

I think the major issue with this idea comes down to gearing; certain items come loaded with SkS. If those items happen to have the highest ilvl (and therefore best main stat/vit) and there are no other alternatives, then that's that, you get a bunch of SkS whether you want or it not. That, or you use a sub-optimal item and intentionally nerf your dps just so you avoid the discomfort of an item loaded with SkS.

If all SkS was added via materia, this suggestion would make more sense, because then it would be a true choice. But as it stands now, if your highest ilvl weapon has hundreds of SkS on it, you'd be using it regardless of how you felt about SkS because weapon damage trumps everything else by such a large margin.

[Shurrikhan]

The proposed fix does the exact opposite of addressing the issues that the thing has.

Which fix?
Which "thing"?

A larger oGCD window that scales with SkS both (1) eases oGCD weaving and (2) makes SkS far less of a trap stat for MCH.

[Vendalwind]

I think the major issue with this idea comes down to gearing; certain items come loaded with SkS. If those items happen to have the highest ilvl (and therefore best main stat/vit) and there are no other alternatives, then that's that, you get a bunch of SkS whether you want or it not. That, or you use a sub-optimal item and intentionally nerf your dps just so you avoid the discomfort of an item loaded with SkS.

If all SkS was added via materia, this suggestion would make more sense, because then it would be a true choice. But as it stands now, if your highest ilvl weapon has hundreds of SkS on it, you'd be using it regardless of how you felt about SkS because weapon damage trumps everything else by such a large margin.

But thats also barely true.
Since you would need at least 500 SkS to even move a .5 gcd one tier (tiers are around 115 sks to have an effect on 2.5 gcd)

Meaning having a weapon alone would effectively change nothing. Later in the patch maybe. But right now definately not.

And even then. If you chose to clip after a standard 1.5 gcd thats sped up you arent losing anything in reality. You just arent using your SkS amount to its full potential so there isnt a direct negative to it UNLESS sks forces some skill misalignment. But that should exceptionally rarely be an issue because the far more drastic changes to 2.5 sks have much more impact on potential misalignment.

So if you continue with the premise of forced discomfort then your conclusion would eventually lead to remove SkS entirely from the game.

And i am absolutely opposed to that.

[Quor]

But thats also barely true.
Since you would need at least 500 SkS to even move a .5 gcd one tier (tiers are around 115 sks to have an effect on 2.5 gcd)

Meaning having a weapon alone would effectively change nothing. Later in the patch maybe. But right now definately not.

And even then. If you chose to clip after a standard 1.5 gcd thats sped up you arent losing anything in reality. You just arent using your SkS amount to its full potential so there isnt a direct negative to it UNLESS sks forces some skill misalignment. But that should exceptionally rarely be an issue because the far more drastic changes to 2.5 sks have much more impact on potential misalignment.

So if you continue with the premise of forced discomfort then your conclusion would eventually lead to remove SkS entirely from the game.

And i am absolutely opposed to that.

"Barely true." Are you a politician? "Barely" true is still true. Furthermore, you're intentionally stupid if you think that the only time this is relevant is with a weapon. The better item is always the highest ilvl item thanks to the importance of main stat/vit. The only time choice becomes relevant is when you have two items with the same ilvl. Any piece that's higher in ilvl will always be better than a lower ilvl item, even if the higher piece is loaded with SkS or other sub-optimal stats for a job. At best this gives people two options; they use ilvl 470 piece A, or ilvl 470 piece B. But they will ALWAYS use the ilvl 470 item over a 460, or even an HQ pentamelded 450, regardless of what the sub-stats on the 470's are.

Again, I provide a solution to this; the OP's idea would work great in a purely optional SkS environment, i.e. through materia, or perhaps through some other stat-modifying system. Given the relative lack of customization, I think it's fair to say that the sub-stat system and perhaps even the materia system itself is due for some kind of rework. SE is sitting on a complexity gold mine, and I too would like to see SkS become more relevant outside of hitting a given GCD threshold.

[Shurrikhan]

Again, I provide a solution to this; the OP's idea would work great in a purely optional SkS environment, i.e. through materia, or perhaps through some other stat-modifying system. Given the relative lack of customization, I think it's fair to say that the sub-stat system and perhaps even the materia system itself is due for some kind of rework. SE is sitting on a complexity gold mine, and I too would like to see SkS become more relevant outside of hitting a given GCD threshold.

Isn't this true for every stat save for pure damage scalars? Critical Hit, Skill Speed, anything that can actually does something has a great deal of potential, but we can't get to any of that without some prior fixes. Shouldn't the fact that SkS seems more than other stats to sit on the brink of complexity, or that it makes demands of our gameplay, also indicate that all the other stats are being badly underutilized, in terms of gameplay?

Now, I fully agree that we should probably have more fine control over our secondary stats. And perhaps that is very much and interlinked discussion, even I had no intention of suggesting something so ambitious nor felt any need for those further changes just to make this one adjustment worth making.

To be very clear, I'm not saying that removing arbitrary exemptions to SkS's scaling will fix SkS as a whole. (I know, pretty comprehensively, what that would take, and have suggested those fixes elsewhere. That comprehensive solution makes things far more intuitive but is likely not, itself, simple to apply, code-wise, which is why I've not mentioned it here.)
I'm merely saying it's a very obvious first step worth taking.

By the same fact that a 1.7-second Hypercharge GCD (with a 12-second Hypercharge/Wildfire) can eventually cause oGCD clipping for high-ping players when stacking enough SkS, a 1.5-second already causes those exact issues, but with no recourse available to the player. Scaling everything simply allows over everything the same degree of control players have had over the rest of their kit. If we can at least attempt to avoid double-weaving issues in our full GCDs by avoiding SkS, we should have the same option for our sub-GCDs. That's it. (For now.)

[Vendalwind]

"Barely true." Are you a politician? "Barely" true is still true. Furthermore, you're intentionally stupid if you think that the only time this is relevant is with a weapon. The better item is always the highest ilvl item thanks to the importance of main stat/vit. The only time choice becomes relevant is when you have two items with the same ilvl. Any piece that's higher in ilvl will always be better than a lower ilvl item, even if the higher piece is loaded with SkS or other sub-optimal stats for a job. At best this gives people two options; they use ilvl 470 piece A, or ilvl 470 piece B. But they will ALWAYS use the ilvl 470 item over a 460, or even an HQ pentamelded 450, regardless of what the sub-stats on the 470's are.

Again, I provide a solution to this; the OP's idea would work great in a purely optional SkS environment, i.e. through materia, or perhaps through some other stat-modifying system. Given the relative lack of customization, I think it's fair to say that the sub-stat system and perhaps even the materia system itself is due for some kind of rework. SE is sitting on a complexity gold mine, and I too would like to see SkS become more relevant outside of hitting a given GCD threshold.

Barely true is not a political term. It implies loosely that your factual statements hold true, but your analysis is terrible.

I was not intentionally stupid. Why do you denigrate yourself to being pointlessly insulting?

And no only the weapon does matter. Because there are always multiple relevant top i lvl pieces for every other slot, and it has been this way for some time.

ANNNNNND even then my statement is still true. If you choose to place an oGCD after a standard 1.5 cast that has been been reduced my SkS then it is your choice to do so and it just means for that single gcd cast you arent maximizing your SkS gains.

Also higher i lvl is not actually always simply better. Keep crafted and overmelded gear in mind, as well as sub stat accesories.

Point being all your argument basically cumulates in a statement : 'skill speed can cause discomfort'

Which is of course stupid. Some people like the speed. Some people like it slow. Sks already makes double weaving uncomfortable for many classes. More skill speed is in fact a choice and an aspect of customization.. dh, crit, and det basically dont customize anything. They just increase dmg. SkS is in point of fact the ONLY substat that directly effects the gameplay and rotation of a class.

I do agree tho that sub stats and materia as a whole could use a rework. But seriously your whole first argument used a true statement about weapons forcing substats to basically just conclude that SkS causes discomfort and therefore shouldnt exist. (Because all your reasonings for it jot existing on .5 or 1.5 gcds extend even more drastically to its effect on 2.5 gcds)