Please let reduced GCDs scale with the base GCD (Attack Speed/SkS/SpS)

[Shurrikhan]

We presently have GCD weaponskills of reduced GCD of 1.5 or 1.2 seconds. These can be unique as a skill, as per Monk's Meditation, or unique to a particular effect, such as MCH's Hypercharge. However, these reduced GCDs do not scale with Skill Speed, Spell Speed, or Attack Speed in any way.

Please let them scale as would any other weaponskill. That is all.

If reducing MCH Hypercharge GCDs below 1.5 seconds would cause oGCD clipping early on, extend the effect instead to a 1.7 or 1.8-second GCD over 12 or 14 seconds, respectively, instead of its current 1.5-second GCD over 10 seconds. The result in either case will remain 2 GCDs spared over the duration. Wildfire would extend in turn, but at lower potency generation per hit such that it, too, has the same total effect. (Or, heck, since MCH is presently undertuned, anywhere between its old and scaled potency addition per hit.) To match, let Reassemble likewise scale with SkS.

Also no for SKS scale. I already see TONS of complaints how mch isn't ping friendly.

So having a larger weaving space for oGCD-weaving, just with SkS no longer being a waste stat, would somehow make it harder to weave skills? The point isn't to shrink the oGCD window; it's to make SkS not a trap stat.

[Endariel]

No.
For machinist, the proposed extended duration with 1.8 will ruin wildfire combo.

Also no for SKS scale. I already see TONS of complaints how mch isn't ping friendly.

[Vendalwind]

It simply would add options. Players could add SkS such that they would know they cant weave post 1.5 gcd standard skill, and if they do well they just havent gotten the full benefit of the substat (weave). And the SkS scaling could be proportionally smaller just as it is proportionally bigger with longer gcd skills. There is almost no reason not to do this. SkS would at maximum take maybe .1 off the .5 gcd anyways. I mean who stacks enough SkS to go frome 2.5 to 2 flat anyways? (1/5 proportional) These skills could still be untouched by haste (like gl, or huton) if needed, or have their base speed set such that with huton or gl 4 its .5

[Shurrikhan]

The proposed fix does the exact opposite of addressing the issues that the thing has.

Which fix?
Which "thing"?

A larger oGCD window that scales with SkS both (1) eases oGCD weaving and (2) makes SkS far less of a trap stat for MCH.

[Quor]

It simply would add options. Players could add SkS such that they would know they cant weave post 1.5 gcd standard skill, and if they do well they just havent gotten the full benefit of the substat (weave). And the SkS scaling could be proportionally smaller just as it is proportionally bigger with longer gcd skills. There is almost no reason not to do this. SkS would at maximum take maybe .1 off the .5 gcd anyways. I mean who stacks enough SkS to go frome 2.5 to 2 flat anyways? (1/5 proportional) These skills could still be untouched by haste (like gl, or huton) if needed, or have their base speed set such that with huton or gl 4 its .5

I think the major issue with this idea comes down to gearing; certain items come loaded with SkS. If those items happen to have the highest ilvl (and therefore best main stat/vit) and there are no other alternatives, then that's that, you get a bunch of SkS whether you want or it not. That, or you use a sub-optimal item and intentionally nerf your dps just so you avoid the discomfort of an item loaded with SkS.

If all SkS was added via materia, this suggestion would make more sense, because then it would be a true choice. But as it stands now, if your highest ilvl weapon has hundreds of SkS on it, you'd be using it regardless of how you felt about SkS because weapon damage trumps everything else by such a large margin.

[Vendalwind]

I think the major issue with this idea comes down to gearing; certain items come loaded with SkS. If those items happen to have the highest ilvl (and therefore best main stat/vit) and there are no other alternatives, then that's that, you get a bunch of SkS whether you want or it not. That, or you use a sub-optimal item and intentionally nerf your dps just so you avoid the discomfort of an item loaded with SkS.

If all SkS was added via materia, this suggestion would make more sense, because then it would be a true choice. But as it stands now, if your highest ilvl weapon has hundreds of SkS on it, you'd be using it regardless of how you felt about SkS because weapon damage trumps everything else by such a large margin.

But thats also barely true.
Since you would need at least 500 SkS to even move a .5 gcd one tier (tiers are around 115 sks to have an effect on 2.5 gcd)

Meaning having a weapon alone would effectively change nothing. Later in the patch maybe. But right now definately not.

And even then. If you chose to clip after a standard 1.5 gcd thats sped up you arent losing anything in reality. You just arent using your SkS amount to its full potential so there isnt a direct negative to it UNLESS sks forces some skill misalignment. But that should exceptionally rarely be an issue because the far more drastic changes to 2.5 sks have much more impact on potential misalignment.

So if you continue with the premise of forced discomfort then your conclusion would eventually lead to remove SkS entirely from the game.

And i am absolutely opposed to that.

[Quor]

But thats also barely true.
Since you would need at least 500 SkS to even move a .5 gcd one tier (tiers are around 115 sks to have an effect on 2.5 gcd)

Meaning having a weapon alone would effectively change nothing. Later in the patch maybe. But right now definately not.

And even then. If you chose to clip after a standard 1.5 gcd thats sped up you arent losing anything in reality. You just arent using your SkS amount to its full potential so there isnt a direct negative to it UNLESS sks forces some skill misalignment. But that should exceptionally rarely be an issue because the far more drastic changes to 2.5 sks have much more impact on potential misalignment.

So if you continue with the premise of forced discomfort then your conclusion would eventually lead to remove SkS entirely from the game.

And i am absolutely opposed to that.

"Barely true." Are you a politician? "Barely" true is still true. Furthermore, you're intentionally stupid if you think that the only time this is relevant is with a weapon. The better item is always the highest ilvl item thanks to the importance of main stat/vit. The only time choice becomes relevant is when you have two items with the same ilvl. Any piece that's higher in ilvl will always be better than a lower ilvl item, even if the higher piece is loaded with SkS or other sub-optimal stats for a job. At best this gives people two options; they use ilvl 470 piece A, or ilvl 470 piece B. But they will ALWAYS use the ilvl 470 item over a 460, or even an HQ pentamelded 450, regardless of what the sub-stats on the 470's are.

Again, I provide a solution to this; the OP's idea would work great in a purely optional SkS environment, i.e. through materia, or perhaps through some other stat-modifying system. Given the relative lack of customization, I think it's fair to say that the sub-stat system and perhaps even the materia system itself is due for some kind of rework. SE is sitting on a complexity gold mine, and I too would like to see SkS become more relevant outside of hitting a given GCD threshold.

[Vendalwind]

"Barely true." Are you a politician? "Barely" true is still true. Furthermore, you're intentionally stupid if you think that the only time this is relevant is with a weapon. The better item is always the highest ilvl item thanks to the importance of main stat/vit. The only time choice becomes relevant is when you have two items with the same ilvl. Any piece that's higher in ilvl will always be better than a lower ilvl item, even if the higher piece is loaded with SkS or other sub-optimal stats for a job. At best this gives people two options; they use ilvl 470 piece A, or ilvl 470 piece B. But they will ALWAYS use the ilvl 470 item over a 460, or even an HQ pentamelded 450, regardless of what the sub-stats on the 470's are.

Again, I provide a solution to this; the OP's idea would work great in a purely optional SkS environment, i.e. through materia, or perhaps through some other stat-modifying system. Given the relative lack of customization, I think it's fair to say that the sub-stat system and perhaps even the materia system itself is due for some kind of rework. SE is sitting on a complexity gold mine, and I too would like to see SkS become more relevant outside of hitting a given GCD threshold.

Barely true is not a political term. It implies loosely that your factual statements hold true, but your analysis is terrible.

I was not intentionally stupid. Why do you denigrate yourself to being pointlessly insulting?

And no only the weapon does matter. Because there are always multiple relevant top i lvl pieces for every other slot, and it has been this way for some time.

ANNNNNND even then my statement is still true. If you choose to place an oGCD after a standard 1.5 cast that has been been reduced my SkS then it is your choice to do so and it just means for that single gcd cast you arent maximizing your SkS gains.

Also higher i lvl is not actually always simply better. Keep crafted and overmelded gear in mind, as well as sub stat accesories.

Point being all your argument basically cumulates in a statement : 'skill speed can cause discomfort'

Which is of course stupid. Some people like the speed. Some people like it slow. Sks already makes double weaving uncomfortable for many classes. More skill speed is in fact a choice and an aspect of customization.. dh, crit, and det basically dont customize anything. They just increase dmg. SkS is in point of fact the ONLY substat that directly effects the gameplay and rotation of a class.

I do agree tho that sub stats and materia as a whole could use a rework. But seriously your whole first argument used a true statement about weapons forcing substats to basically just conclude that SkS causes discomfort and therefore shouldnt exist. (Because all your reasonings for it jot existing on .5 or 1.5 gcds extend even more drastically to its effect on 2.5 gcds)

[Vendalwind]

And this statement is also true: Having skill speed effect more skills will only reduce the discomfort because it means less aspects of a rotation or kit have to be changed to maintain alignments or consistency.

The only reason SkS is a problem for some classes is it doesnt effect oGCDs. Having it effect more skills absolutely lessens the discomfort.

[Quor]

Barely true is not a political term. It implies loosely that your factual statements hold true, but your analysis is terrible.

Then say that.

I was not intentionally stupid. Why do you denigrate yourself to being pointlessly insulting?

I never said you were specifically stupid, just that anyone who thinks it's only an issue with a weapon is stupid, because it's not; as I noted in my above example there are, at most, two choices for an armor/accessory in any given patch cycle. You either use an augmented tome piece, or you use a savage piece. If neither of those have SkS, then great, you can flavor to taste (to a degree). If both happen to have SkS then you're using that SkS whether you want it or not because it's only the highest ilvl items available to you.

And no only the weapon does matter. Because there are always multiple relevant top i lvl pieces for every other slot, and it has been this way for some time.

Again, there are two choices at best. Technically this counts as "multiple." But that ignores the fact that sometimes you get a tier where SE decides to make both the tome and savage piece have non-optimal sub-stats, but you'll still use it because it's better than having the lower ilvl item just on the basis of main stat and vit. In these unavoidable situations, which occur for every job at some point in time for each xpac, this change would force SkS on anyone using those items, and thus force a change in their playstyle.

Also higher i lvl is not actually always simply better. Keep crafted and overmelded gear in mind, as well as sub stat accesories.

No. It is ALWAYS better, because the strength of main stat plus vit will always outclass even a perfect pentameld crafted item due to how stat scaling works.

Point being all your argument basically cumulates in a statement : 'skill speed can cause discomfort'

No. SkS, when applied as OP suggested (i.e. still present as a sub-stat on items that a player will be forced to use) would force a gameplay change on people by virtue of the fact that they have no other option when it comes to a relevant item. Which is why I suggested it as a separate entity; taken out of the equation of baseline stats on items and limited to at-will choice via materia customization would accomplish what OP wants without a problem. As it stands now though, there will always be a situation for every job wherein they are forced into SkS/SpS because it happens to be on their two highest ilvl choices for a slot.

Which is of course stupid. Some people like the speed. Some people like it slow. Sks already makes double weaving uncomfortable for many classes. More skill speed is in fact a choice and an aspect of customization.. dh, crit, and det basically dont customize anything. They just increase dmg. SkS is in point of fact the ONLY substat that directly effects the gameplay and rotation of a class.

True, which is why I like SkS/SpS.

I do agree tho that sub stats and materia as a whole could use a rework.

Couldn't agree more.

But seriously your whole first argument used a true statement about weapons forcing substats to basically just conclude that SkS causes discomfort and therefore shouldnt exist. (Because all your reasonings for it jot existing on .5 or 1.5 gcds extend even more drastically to its effect on 2.5 gcds)

No, that is not what I said. I've already clarified what I said above.