Gnashing Fang Combo, one button?

[DRKoftheAzure]

NO! Why is everyone so obsessed with class having less buttons? Or buttons share the same recast timer as a completely unrelated button that breaks the flow of gameplay? It doesn't make sense at all!

[Shurrikhan]

NO! Why is everyone so obsessed with class having less buttons? Or buttons share the same recast timer as a completely unrelated button that breaks the flow of gameplay? It doesn't make sense at all!

Are simple requests like intuitive and responsive menus or simple features like auto-run also an obsession. All in all, that's all these requests amount to -- simple QoL. Personally, I don't see what's any more engaging about, say, Assassinate using a separate button from Dream Within a Dream, given that the one cannot be used without the other, than having to confirm my purchase choice a second time.

And, no one's suggested that unrelated abilities be combined to the same button.

• Between the Lines cannot be used except during Ley Lines. They are not unrelated and combining them in no way decreases difficulty.
• Assassinate cannot be used except right after Dream Within a Dream. They are not unrelated and combining them in no way decreases difficulty.
• Mirage Dive cannot be used except right after (High) Jump and SSD. They are not unrelated and combining them in no way decreases difficulty.
• Fire IV and Blizzard IV are mutually exclusive counterparts. They are not unrelated and combining them in no way decreases difficulty.
• Enkindle Bahamut cannot be used except right after Summon Bahamut. They are not unrelated and combining them in no way decreases difficulty.
• And, finally, here:
  Eye Gauge cannot be used except right after Abdomen Tear, which cannot be used except after Jugular Rip. They are not unrelated and combining them in no way decreases difficulty. (Oh wait, they were already combined! Despite being a CD combo!)
  Wicked Talon cannot be used except right after Savage Claw, which cannot be used except after Gnashing Fang. They are not unrelated and combining in no way decreases difficulty. (Though I personally would rather keep using them separately just for ease of muscle memory.)

Need I go on?

[ArianeEwah]

simple QoL.

And, no one's suggested that unrelated abilities be combined to the same button.

• Between the Lines cannot be used except during Ley Lines. They are not unrelated and combining them in no way decreases difficulty.
• Assassinate cannot be used except right after Dream Within a Dream. They are not unrelated and combining them in no way decreases difficulty.
• Mirage Dive cannot be used except right after (High) Jump and SSD. They are not unrelated and combining them in no way decreases difficulty.
• Fire IV and Blizzard IV are mutually exclusive counterparts. They are not unrelated and combining them in no way decreases difficulty.
• Enkindle Bahamut cannot be used except right after Summon Bahamut. They are not unrelated and combining them in no way decreases difficulty.

Thank you, this is great! I actually haven't thought it would still be so many actions that cause 'x ready' buffs, yet still have separate buttons. It feels like SE keeps those buttons just for the sake of it.

b@T: I don't it's actually necessary to combine combos into 1 button - for now.

But for the sake of keeping combos, diversity, maybe new and old actions (back) in the game, I would welcome it. Every single combo or 'x ready' ability combined to a single button frees 1-2 more slots.
e.g. NIN has Dream Within a Dream -> Assassinate, 3 combo(ending)s, hide cannot be used during combat (why not change it to Trick Attack during Suiton?) and your mudra can only be executed when you use Ten, Chi or Jin. This would free at least 5 button slots! They could get a renewed Dancing Edge, Jugulate etc.
Another positive aspect of 1 button combos: if you fail to hit your 'next weaponskill' in time - e.g. you keep Brutal Shell, do full Gnashing Fang combo, Sonic Break, and a Burst Strike, and had to disengage or lag spike - you would start a new combo instead of hitting 'the expired combo button'.

PS: SSD doesn't grant 'Mirage Dive ready' since 5.0 anymore, so it would make sense to merge Jump + Mirage Dive.

[Shurrikhan]

Thank you, this is great! I actually haven't thought it would still be so many actions that cause 'x ready' buffs, yet still have separate buttons. It feels like SE keeps those buttons just for the sake of it.

b@T: I don't it's actually necessary to combine combos into 1 button - for now.

Totally fair, and agreed. That's probably why my preference is to give that option in certain outlying cases simply because on principle that makes the most sense and feels fairest to me... and then to not use that option myself, since I prefer the button-movement, even if it only an illusion of complexity.

[Reynhart]

NO! Why is everyone so obsessed with class having less buttons? Or buttons share the same recast timer as a completely unrelated button that breaks the flow of gameplay? It doesn't make sense at all!

Because condensed skills = less slots to fill = more potential skills to create while still avoiding buton bloat = more complexity.

Also, having a single button for each combo mean that you could have more Weapon Skills since, for example, there would be no reason for both Goring Blade and Royal Authority to have the same two initial steps anymore, which would also reduce animation monotony.

People will argue that this idea of 1 button combos would simplify and making a job easier and more boring by removing buttons and should not be an option.

And as usual, they completely ignore the fact that "less buttons" and "less skills" are two completely different things, and that complexity is related to how many skills you have to use.

[DRKoftheAzure]

Because condensed skills = less slots to fill = more potential skills to create while still avoiding buton bloat = more complexity.

DRK and WAR have a lot of button bloat because of some stupid gimmick called a "job gauge" which is basically a glorified cooldown at this point, and yes GNB and PLD have this as well(though PLDs Cover is now bloat due to nerf) has this as well, but for GNB it's way more well designed than all of the tanks combined.

Also, having a single button for each combo mean that you could have more Weapon Skills since, for example, there would be no reason for both Goring Blade and Royal Authority to have the same two initial steps anymore, which would also reduce animation monotony.

So long as it is optional for both mouse/keyboard and gamepad players and you can toggle it in an options menu fine. But it's not yet...

And as usual, they completely ignore the fact that "less buttons" and "less skills" are two completely different things, and that complexity is related to how many skills you have to use.

Remember how in A Realm Reborn and Heavensward we had just as many traits as abilities/weaponskills/spells? And remember how they mostly removed a lot of traits going into Stormblood? Remember how lackluster cross class function was but a lot of people, both old and new to the game, had high hopes of it having more cross class skills to choose from later on in the games life?

[Reynhart]

DRK and WAR have a lot of button bloat because of some stupid gimmick called a "job gauge" which is basically a glorified cooldown at this point, and yes GNB and PLD have this as well(though PLDs Cover is now bloat due to nerf) has this as well, but for GNB it's way more well designed than all of the tanks combined.

Would you say that GNB is well designed if Tear/Rip/Gouge were three separate slots ? Because we're advocating the same concept for combos that are, by design, supposed to work that way.

So long as it is optional for both mouse/keyboard and gamepad players and you can toggle it in an options menu fine. But it's not yet...

You're always free to apply the same combo on multiple slots if you want to press different buttons, but it would still end with the same skill rotation. The only exception would be for MNK, that should need a "Perfect" version of its skills, available during Perfect Balance.

And remember how they mostly removed a lot of traits going into Stormblood?

Yes, and from SE's own confession, it was mostly because they feared button bloat...which condensed skills would partly fix.

[DRKoftheAzure]

Would you say that GNB is well designed if Tear/Rip/Gouge were three separate slots ? Because we're advocating the same concept for combos that are, by design, supposed to work that way.

If each Continuation skill were there own separate button slots, I would call button bloat on that, but because they all share the same button, no need to fix what isn't broke...

You're always free to apply the same combo on multiple slots if you want to press different buttons, but it would still end with the same skill rotation. The only exception would be for MNK, that should need a "Perfect" version of its skills, available during Perfect Balance.

As someonewho plays on gamepad with WXHB, I only do that DNC because of their Standard/Technical Step skills, and I never do that for any other class/job in the game.

Yes, and from SE's own confession, it was mostly because they feared button bloat...which condensed skills would partly fix.

You said "partly fix" which means you left something out...

[Kabooa]

You said "partly fix" which means you left something out...

If your goal is to have 24 buttons at the end of the day, no matter how prudent you are about adding them, you eventually hit 24.

That's how consolidation "partly" fixes it. It gives you more breathing room before you have to trim something down.

It really shouldn't take someone explaining this.

[Reynhart]

BLM has the second lowest APM from all the jobs and those 2 are ranged, so its not even near the GNB gameplay.

You realize that GCD and procs are exactly the same wether you're ranged or melee ?

If each Continuation skill were there own separate button slots, I would call button bloat on that, but because they all share the same button, no need to fix what isn't broke...

Considering how many skills we already lost because of that, we called consolidated combos for years because of button bloat.

As someonewho plays on gamepad with WXHB, I only do that DNC because of their Standard/Technical Step skills, and I never do that for any other class/job in the game.

You still have the option to do that, if you really want different buttons...just for different buttons.

You said "partly fix" which means you left something out...

Yes, because saving 3 slots for DRK WS won't ensure that it'd never hit button bloat...duh.