Potential AST Rework: Cards = Heals

[Brandedblade]

The current system, as boring as this forum may find it, is honestly the best compromise between consistency and randomness we can achieve. While there is certainly a thrill behind pulling the best possible card for the given scenario, there was always a risk of unfavorable draws giving you useless effects (aka those joke videos about constantly pulling Spires)

While this current system is still a luck based system of highs and lows, the best and worst case scenarios are not as severe of a loss as they used to be. You will always have your guaranteed effect (the damage boost), with the rng affecting the amount of said damage boost as opposed to either giving you increased damage or nothing.

At this point I believe the best thing is to streamline the process and make it more controller friendly as opposed to tossing it away and bringing back the old inconsistent system. An example I see alot that I agree with would be Minor Arcana automatically playing the appropriate Lord/Lady from the drawn card.

If there should be any additional effect, I'd go for 500 MP on every draw, which would give AST an active mp source akin to WHM's Assize and SCH's ED.

[Mansion]

The current system, as boring as this forum may find it, is honestly the best compromise between consistency and randomness we can achieve. While there is certainly a thrill behind pulling the best possible card for the given scenario, there was always a risk of unfavorable draws giving you useless effects (aka those joke videos about constantly pulling Spires)

While this current system is still a luck based system of highs and lows, the best and worst case scenarios are not as severe of a loss as they used to be. You will always have your guaranteed effect (the damage boost), with the rng affecting the amount of said damage boost as opposed to either giving you increased damage or nothing.

At this point I believe the best thing is to streamline the process and make it more controller friendly as opposed to tossing it away and bringing back the old inconsistent system. An example I see alot that I agree with would be Minor Arcana automatically playing the appropriate Lord/Lady from the drawn card.

If there should be any additional effect, I'd go for 500 MP on every draw, which would give AST an active mp source akin to WHM's Assize and SCH's ED.

But outside of feeling bland and boring to play, isn't it also a problem that AST rDPS with cards is still behind the other healers? I think that's a good chunk of the problem too.
Healing wise, AST is okay, it does not really need more tools in that regard.

[MPNZ]

Largely, the major problem with this is the creation of redundant healing spells and combat encounter & job design that is wholly out of touch with each other like WHM from 3.0-5.0 (healing role design). It would be more interesting to design them to alter changes how the job heals or mitigates/nulls damage like, if hit: current remaing hp will be the difference between damage recieved and the player's max HP with a two second invincibility to help mitigate large pulls

[Brandedblade]

But outside of feeling bland and boring to play, isn't it also a problem that AST rDPS with cards is still behind the other healers? I think that's a good chunk of the problem too.
Healing wise, AST is okay, it does not really need more tools in that regard.

Boredom and blandness are ultimately opinions. However, the lower rDPS is merely a matter of tweaking numbers, whether it's the potency of the cards or the AST's own damage spells. Do keep in mind, however, that the scaling on cards will only get stronger as players gear level increases. I do admit that it seems SE is currently scared to make the pDPS of buffing jobs too high, bit I can at least understand where they come from.

Healing wise, all AST needs is for Nocturnal Sect to not feel like garbage compared to Diurnal. Fortunately that is something SE has flat out admitted they're planning on addressing this upcoming patch so I'm staying optimistic.

[MitsukiKimura]

Boredom and blandness are ultimately opinions.

Coming from an Astrologian main, it is "Very" boring and uninspiring. I loved having multiple choices on cards I'd use, faster attack speed, more crit, more damage, etc I loved having that ultimate choice on what play style I wanted to go with. Pure damage on all of my cards with no uniqueness even having them all named differently is upsetting honestly. I feel like this was rushed without realizing what they "Really" took away from the class. Trying to dumb things down to simple basic logic only turns people away. There's still the element for fishing for seals and you can still get RNG'ed if you need a ranged card and you draw nothing but melee boosts so we go from fishing for balance to fishing for 2 more things. Trying to fish for that 3rd different seal for that 6% is such a time waste and you need to get your divination off in your light speed opener so there's a good chance you won't even get it and will have to stick with either a 4% or 5%. Balance may have been the better choice in cards but I can assure you a lot of people liked using other cards as well.

[Mansion]

Boredom and blandness are ultimately opinions.

The way I worded it, yes. But there is a significant simplification between :
"Drawing one card that will be DPS up while keeping an eye on Seals and melee or ranged"
and
"Drawing one out of 6 effects, reflecting on how to use it properly, considering jobs around you, the fight itself, the possible Royal Road you will have, or if you want to burn that card which way of getting rid of it would be the better option (redraw or Minor Arcana), or if you want to keep it for another setup (Spread)."

Maybe not universally "boring and bland", but certainly there is far less to think about. Which is arguably something people liked about AST's former card system.

[LariaKirin]

The way I worded it, yes. But there is a significant simplification between :
"Drawing one card that will be DPS up while keeping an eye on Seals and melee or ranged"
and
"Drawing one out of 6 effects, reflecting on how to use it properly, considering jobs around you, the fight itself, the possible Royal Road you will have, or if you want to burn that card which way of getting rid of it would be the better option (redraw or Minor Arcana), or if you want to keep it for another setup (Spread)."

Maybe not universally "boring and bland", but certainly there is far less to think about. Which is arguably something people liked about AST's former card system.

Do you not have to think about how to properly use the card? Do you not have to consider what jobs are around you? Do you not have to consider the fight?

If seals and "melee or ranged" is all you see, then you are well on the pathway to mediocre card usage.

The change to 15 seconds duration alone makes target selection significantly more nuanced than old Arrow vs Spear vs Balance.

[Reynhart]

If seals and "melee or ranged" is all you see, then you are well on the pathway to mediocre card usage.

What do you do with a card that don't match well your divination apart from changing it into an Arcana ?
Or if you already have the seals and Divination is on CD ?

[Mansion]

Do you not have to think about how to properly use the card? Do you not have to consider what jobs are around you? Do you not have to consider the fight?

If seals and "melee or ranged" is all you see, then you are well on the pathway to mediocre card usage.

I'm most likely stressing the adaptation based on what you draw. You did not put a Bole on someone whenever you felt like it, or an Arrow to a MCH or stuff...

My post sure is minimizing the optimization that lies in the current card system, but most likely because I consider every job has its own field of optimization. That and the generic rule of cards, which is knowing when a card is most beneficial to whatever job. Now the DPS up is a safe guard, in the end of the day you did buff dps of your party member. While the other card system required much more involvement to get optimal benefits.

[LariaKirin]

What do you do with a card that don't match well your divination apart from changing it into an Arcana ?
Or if you already have the seals and Divination is on CD ?

I'm pointing out that the statement in regards to the current system is overly simplified. Take a while to read the entire post and understand the context before you ask irrelevant questions.

I'm most likely stressing the adaptation based on what you draw. You did not put a Bole on someone whenever you felt like it, or an Arrow to a MCH or stuff...

My post sure is minimizing the optimization that lies in the current card system, but most likely because I consider every job has its own field of optimization. That and the generic rule of cards, which is knowing when a card is most beneficial to whatever job. Now the DPS up is a safe guard, in the end of the day you did buff dps of your party member. While the other card system required much more involvement to get optimal benefits.

You're focusing on what you had to think about in the old system and ignoring what you have to think about in the new system. No wonder you think it requires less thought.

In the old system, you played the card ASAP because otherwise you'd have delayed your next cards. So you used a simple set of rules based on which job made the most use of the card. You had different ways to transform the cards - which you absolutely needed, because the system revolved around getting rid of the useless cards as soon as possible to make room for the next spread Balance.

You needed to know what card was most beneficial to what job. Now, you need to know when the card is most beneficial to each job.
Conveniently, you can now hold onto the card without losing draws, allowing you to choose a better time window to use it.

The card lasting for 15 seconds means that it's important for you to use it when your target has a burst window, rather than immediately or whenever you feel like it.
No job does constant DPS throughout the entire fight. That BLM pulling 16k dps might look like a juicy target. But if you throw your card whenever you feel like it, you risk giving them a buff during the 12k dps umbral ice phase, rather than the 20k dps astral fire phase.

Here's another scenario: You have a BLM and a MCH in your party. Do you automatically use the card on the BLM? If you do, you're not getting the most out of your cards. MCH has burst windows that can go up to 25k, which BLM cannot hope reach without extreme RNG.

The new system is only less thoughtful or involving because you choose to ignore the more nuanced aspects.