That's great... but can we have an INSTANCED Housing area

[Shougun]

I guess what if I’m getting at is this,

Okay say devs see a bunch of posts saying “apartments are bad! We want a new instanced housing system” the creation of a new system is obviously more of a daunting task and the devs would likely just abandon any idea of upgrading apartments because eh if people think apartments are bad why bother putting more time/money into them?

Now if the feedback is “apartments are a step in the right direction, but can we add some kinda outside are and a way to expand the inside area?” That’s workable, the devs know what works and what doesn’t. I just think a lot of people kinda shot themselves in the foot when it comes to feedback on here, it comes off as so overly negative/hyperbolic it makes the person look impossible to please. Feedback should include what works and what doesn’t work as a basis for improvements instead of making every unliked change the game sound like the second coming of 1.0.

I think SE shot themselves in the foot with their sys---.... /bad me bad.. lol.

To be fair to some people who've issue with the system, like myself, I said most of the issues SE would have before they released it.. and have kept saying the same thing since (that the desired end goal has been laid out fairly consistently, and issues with the current system have been said by a few at least for a long time). And what I wished happened hasn't really shifted, basically I just reference Wildstar as an easy "this is what would have been perfect for your game". Because FF seems to be all about that freedom, our job system being one of the pinnacle points- so a housing system to be free and full of grand magic too seems like "that's what we should have done". Rather than a fairly hardcore housing system that we have now which fits games centered around those ideas (like Dark age of Camelot, a game I'm pretty sure inspired our housing system).

Also just wanted to note I added a section to the post you quoted after you replied, in case you wanted to read that (my bad for editing it later lol).

I agree it helps to give SE clear ideas of what people want.. honestly I've wrote enough, care enough, that like I could probably whip together an impromptu 1 hour presentation on housing at this point lol. I appreciate if people are trying to sift out rage to actual desires (or all my salt), just for clarity of SE's sake just so long as we're both thinking similar that wanting a new system and expanding a system so greatly that it's basically that new desired system are fairly similar ideas. By that I mean if they didn't expand apartment feature 'so greatly that it becomes like that system you're asking for' so what we're going to do is expand it 2% and pretend we did 100% :P. It's fine if SE goes "oh.. well.. we can do 2% now and we'll try to get 100% over time.." but not to confuse 2% with done and satisfied. If SE was like "we added another floor to apartments, you're happy now- right?, no one has a single complaint anymore right?" wrong.. Although that's still a pretty cool expansion. I'd clap (sincerely) that they did that but also be like "don't stop, keep going!!!".

So yeah for clarity sake I don't mind how they get to end point goal utopia I just care that we're going there and not stopping by dystonia for an indefinite stay and also telling everyone that "we've made it, this is it, this is the destination you all wanted", as no it's not lol.

[SerLuke]

I think SE shot themselves in the foot with their sys---.... /bad me bad.. lol.

To be fair to some people who've issue with the system, like myself, I said most of the issues SE would have before they released it.. and have kept saying the same thing since. And what I wished happened hasn't really shifted, basically I just reference Wildstar as an easy "this is what would have been perfect for your game". Because FF seems to be all about that freedom, our job system being one of the pinnacle points- so a housing system to be free and full of grand magic too seems like "that's what we should have done" rather than a fairly hardcore housing system that we have now which fits games centered around those ideas (like Dark age of Camelot a game I'm pretty sure inspired our housing system).

Also just wanted to note I added a section to the post you quoted after you replied, in case you wanted to read that (my bad for editing it later lol).

I agree it helps to give SE clear ideas of what people want.. honestly I've wrote enough, care enough, that like I could probably whip together an impromptu 1 presentation on housing at this point lol. I appreciate if people are trying to sift out rage to actual desires, just for clarity of SE's sake just so long as we're both thinking similar that wanting a new system and expanding a system so greatly that it's basically that new desired system are fairly similar ideas. By that I mean we can't say if you expand apartment feature so greatly that it becomes like that system you're asking for so what we're going to do is expand it 2% and pretend we did 100% :P. It's fine if SE goes "oh.. well.. we can do 2% now and we'll try to get 100%.." but not to confuse 2% with done and satisfied. If se was like "we added another floor to apartments, you're happy now right, no one has a single complaint anymore right?" wrong.. Although that's still a pretty cool expansion. I'd clap that they did that but also be like "don't stop, keep going!!!".

So yeah for clarity sake I don't mind how they get to end point goal utopia I just care that we're going there and not stopping by dystonia for an indefinite stay and also telling everyone that "we've made it, this is it, this is the destination you all wanted", as no it's not lol.

I dunno if the 2% thing is a reference to the ward additions by I don’t think they are claiming that’s their final plan there, assuming that Ishgard housing does eventually happen as part of Ishgard restoration it would be another whole housing area like the ones we have now... plus the two wards that are being added to the other areas, assuming that’s the plan will it be enough to make everyone happy? No, will it be a huge step in the right direction? Yes.

[Shougun]

I dunno if the 2% thing is a reference to the ward additions by I don’t think they are claiming that’s their final plan there, assuming that Ishgard housing does eventually happen as part of Ishgard restoration it would be another whole housing area like the ones we have now... plus the two wards that are being added to the other areas, assuming that’s the plan will it be enough to make everyone happy? No, will it be a huge step in the right direction? Yes.

2% was a number pulled from thin air, like statistics normally are . Was just to say if they make progress that's awesome (I don't expect mountains to be done all at once), but if they barely make progress then it shan't be called done or close to done.

To be clear though adding more wards would not make me feel any % improved. They could add 10000 new wards, 100x more wards than players- I'd think they would have made a mistake doing that (would have certainly killed the neighborhood, new meaning to ghost town lol). Making apartments in the wards be able to upgrade into pocket wards, that'd be something though.

Instanced houses is the desire, not more wards (and at least for my own desires it's been this way since inception of their system, I've not been waffling about on that idea lol).

[SerLuke]

You are making the leap that they can actually improve apartments. It is pretty clear they were just open FC rooms. They even have same limit of instances as a FC house. It might be even harder to fix apartments as is now.

Everything in the game can be improved, the question is the amount of time/money/resources it would take for it to happen worthwhile. There was stuff they originally couldn’t do in the game because of the 1.0 legacy code that they eventually worked around it took time but it was doable.

[SerLuke]

2% was a number pulled from thin air, like statistics normally are . Was just to say if they make progress that's awesome (I don't expect mountains to be done all at once), but if they barely make progress then it shan't be called done or close to done.

To be clear though adding more wards would not make me feel any % improved. They could add 10000 new wards, 100x more wards than players- I'd think they would have made a mistake doing that (would have certainly killed the neighborhood, new meaning to ghost town lol). Making apartments in the wards be able to upgrade into pocket wards, that'd be something though.

Instanced houses is the desire, not more wards (and at least for my own desires it's been this way since inception of their system, I've not been waffling about on that idea lol).

Okay so just to make sure I’m understanding you, hypothetically if they got the server capacity so they had enough wards so everyone and every FC was able to own a house in the current system, you wouldn’t be any more happy?

[Lacan]

but... instanced housing would ruin my immersion! A highly competitive housing market is pretty realistic. I mean, getting a house doesn't feel very special if everyone else gets to have one too. You gotta have some homeless people to make the home owners feel accomplished.

[Shougun]

Okay so just to make sure I’m understanding you, hypothetically if they got the server capacity so they had enough wards so everyone and every FC was able to own a house in the current system, you wouldn’t be any more happy?

I think you'd have killed the whole purpose of wards if you did that (neighborhood be dead in the vast majority of circumstances, more so than already).

I would be impressed they were able to do that, and I might think if this is literally the best you can do then so be it.. but if we could hypothetically gauge happiness as a value I'd only move slightly upwards and a lot of other feelings would increase some being negative. My reaction would be like a sincere "wow that impressive" and a sarcastic "well done".

I believe the wards function better when they're limited, each time the wards expand I think they shoot themselves in the foot- and I think their limitations shoot the housing potential in the foot.

Desire: Everyone can have a home, and that the feature set of housing increases greatly. Both of these are important to me. (I don't seek the destruction of the wards, and I actively look for ways that ward users and instanced users could benefit together).

The ward system prevents us from getting larger houses and larger yards, it prevents us from using certain objects and themes, it holds us back in our ability to place objects, the wards in my mind are shackles. Making impressive shackles comes with mixed feelings, lol.

It's an old video and Wildstar isn't the only game to do this, but this is and has been for a long time my end goal desire- I linked a fairly short "trailer" of that system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9Q8wS-TR84 .

I'll be impressed if you made 1:1 housing via the ward system, but it's not what I wish for and will be disappointed in quite a few ways (limited and missed opportunities, system that's defeating itself when it expands, etc).

[SerLuke]

I think you'd have killed the whole purpose of wards if you did that (neighborhood be dead in the vast majority of circumstances, more so than already).

I would be impressed they were able to do that, and I might think if this is literally the best you can do then so be it.. but if we could hypothtically gauge happyness as a value I'd only move slightly upwards and a lot of other feelings would increase some being negative.

Desire: Everyone can have a home, and that the feature set of housing increases greatly. Both of these are important to me.

The ward system prevents us from getting larger houses and larger yards, it prevents us from using certain objects and themes, it holds us back in our ability to place objects, the wards in my mind are shackles. It's an old video and Wildstar isn't the only game to do this, but this is and has been for a long time my end goal desire- I linked a fairly short "trailer" of that system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9Q8wS-TR84 .

I'll be impressed if you made 1:1 housing in via the ward system, but it's not what I wish for.

Okay so basically SE is damned if they do and damned if they don’t? Let’s say they switch to instance only for future housing to satisfy the people who are asking for that, but you’ll get an out cry for people who wanted a house to display in the current ward system. So what’s the solution that will make the most amount of people happy?

[Shougun]

Okay so basically SE is damned if they do and damned if they don’t? Let’s say they switch to instance only for future housing to satisfy the people who are asking for that, but you’ll get an out cry for people who wanted a house to display in the current ward system. So what’s the solution that will make the most amount of people happy?

In the previous post you read that I said I don't want to kill the wards, and I also just added that to this one. I disagree with you and I think you're making the conversation overly simple to make it sound like there is no where to go and we should just stop (or at least I strongly felt you were going for the "throw the hands up in the air huff out of the room ending the discussion" direction, which is not where I was leading you as I had already said what I think would be grand nearly for everyone). If that's not your intention then please understand and sincerely take in that I have no desire to kill the wards, and want everyone to gain benefit of a more powerful system.

As said previously I think ward users will get a pocket world alongside instanced users, the purpose of the wards will be explicitly for that public facing image. The wards will NOT be destroyed, unless no one likes them and everyone abandons them via their own volition (since the system doesn't require you to leave the ward to get a pocket space)- in which case that's the ward's own issue.

[Moonlite]

If anything the fact that they are alotting more resources to more wards proves anything we are never getting instances. At this point the server probably has alotted more resources to wards then actual open world zones. I feel sorry for the people who will never get a house and sorry for the players that see resources wasted to run more wards instead of more open world zones.



One thing that is pointless, but I am curious about. A question to the people who are attached to the wards. Why couldn't they just shrink one ward down and make all players entering and exiting their house that ward. Put all the vendors, maybe even put in a Rowena shop from anything old content, a beast tribe vendors could be opened from a quest, MBs and retainer bells. Finally something that worked well when Aion launched for gathering people up is a spot to get crafter buffs, that only last in that area. Seasonal events could happen more with only one housing area entrance as well.