Is AST bad?

[Saefinn]

If you play on a controller, I wouldn't touch AST with a 10 foot pole. If you play on K+M, best advice anyone can give you is to try it for yourself and see what you think.

I'm a controller player, I'll admit it gets fiddly, but how I've got it set up works for me when I play AST. However, I've spent a little time trying to optimise my settings to get it as fluid as I can across 2 cross bar pages then get used to playing like that (it doesn't take long, but feels weird to start). There's options to bring up a different set of abilities if you combine both back buttons and which set of abilities you get depends on which back button you hit firsts. There's also an option for double tapping for a similar effect, though I find the former more reliable and less clunky than "RB + A", "RB+X" etc. This in effect makes it not too awkward to access up to 32 buttons (if I added the double tap on top I'd get an additional 8, but I could get into the flow of doing that and 32 slots is plenty). At least I find this helps me play jobs on the controller that have more buttons.

[tesni_g]

I'm a controller player, I'll admit it gets fiddly, but how I've got it set up works for me when I play AST. However, I've spent a little time trying to optimise my settings to get it as fluid as I can across 2 cross bar pages then get used to playing like that (it doesn't take long, but feels weird to start). There's options to bring up a different set of abilities if you combine both back buttons and which set of abilities you get depends on which back button you hit firsts. There's also an option for double tapping for a similar effect, though I find the former more reliable and less clunky than "RB + A", "RB+X" etc. This in effect makes it not too awkward to access up to 32 buttons (if I added the double tap on top I'd get an additional 8, but I could get into the flow of doing that and 32 slots is plenty). At least I find this helps me play jobs on the controller that have more buttons.

Absolutely second using multiple cross bar pages. Outside of healing, it's a lifesaver to have a universal bar for travel and social stuff (gpose and vital chat macros) that is exactly the same no matter what I'm playing. For healing, I like to put sects/summons/prepull junk on a secondary page to free up buttons for my main bars. It does feel super weird to switch in combat but it's wonderful once I got used to it.

The double-tap + directionals are a bit more awkward but having more cooldowns on my front page helps me track them. I've seen some controller players activate a secondary hotbar specifically to visualize cooldowns, too, but they use the "hidden" page of combining back buttons to access them. One thing about double-tap is that it takes a bit more mental prep. Since it's all off globals, I access the page as soon as I begin casting and hold until it's time to weave.

And with all these extra button spaces, there's enough room for me to macro cards. I feel dirty doing using macros in combat, but it's the only way I can imagine getting through the opener in a raid setting. Not having to physically target for cards has salvaged the class for me. It doesn't always work though, because macros can't queue the way that spells and abilities do, so I just try to get the card out on the next GCD instead. I wind up smashing buttons a lot during the Sleeve Draw.

If anyone has more coping mechanisms for AST on controller, I would really like to hear them.

[ctcc42]

I am a keyboard and mouse player, with all three healers at 80. For me the answer to; 'Is AST bad?' is; 'Yes, AST is bad'.

Prior to the 5.0 changes I preferred to play Scholar or Stone Mage over AST because:

It's sound effects make me feel sleepy. Honestly, the tinkerly little sparkly flutter of malefic and combust combined with any low level roulette make it horribly difficult for me to keep my eyes open.

After the 5.0 changes my opinion of the class changed from; 'Its good but I can't keep my eyes open.' to 'Its bad.' the reasons being:

I have to dot something or otherwise engage an enemy before I can use a card on player or I will not gain a seal.

The seal system isn't fun. The old card system was, I really liked burning cards for potency, duration, and aoe modifiers. trying to get the right set of seals, feels more like rolling dice then drawing cards to me. not sure why. But I don't like it.

AST feels like it takes twice as much attention and work then SCH or WHM just to get the same performance. Which might be fine, except those damn sound effects are putting me to sle..... Wha... What was I typing about again?

[Saefinn]

Absolutely second using multiple cross bar pages. Outside of healing, it's a lifesaver to have a universal bar for travel and social stuff (gpose and vital chat macros) that is exactly the same no matter what I'm playing. For healing, I like to put sects/summons/prepull junk on a secondary page to free up buttons for my main bars. It does feel super weird to switch in combat but it's wonderful once I got used to it.

The double-tap + directionals are a bit more awkward but having more cooldowns on my front page helps me track them. I've seen some controller players activate a secondary hotbar specifically to visualize cooldowns, too, but they use the "hidden" page of combining back buttons to access them. One thing about double-tap is that it takes a bit more mental prep. Since it's all off globals, I access the page as soon as I begin casting and hold until it's time to weave.

And with all these extra button spaces, there's enough room for me to macro cards. I feel dirty doing using macros in combat, but it's the only way I can imagine getting through the opener in a raid setting. Not having to physically target for cards has salvaged the class for me. It doesn't always work though, because macros can't queue the way that spells and abilities do, so I just try to get the card out on the next GCD instead. I wind up smashing buttons a lot during the Sleeve Draw.

If anyone has more coping mechanisms for AST on controller, I would really like to hear them.

If it helps, this is my current set up, it may still need some tweaking. Stuff like Synastry could be in a better place. My brain is a little chaotic, so it might not work for some. But I've based my layout on what I feel is fluid with my controller set up with Expanded Hold Controls turned on:



The logic I've gone for is:
RT - Healing
LT - Expanded Healing & Cards
RT->LT - DPS - I've slipped in Sleeve Draw, Neutral Sec and Swiftcast + Ascend because I might weave Sleeve Draw when I'm free to DPS. And as I only need to push down LT when healing, I can quickly get to may Rez and Neutral Sect. The DPS is here for a similar reason, because it feels more fluid swapping to DPS from this position when I've just been casting heals
LT->RT - Other cooldowns and role abilities

Then I use a hotbar just to show me the cool downs I care about on page 2, it's just more visible then.



Then with a little bit of practice against a striking dummy, I can get a feel for how it flows. I've also moved stuff around when certain bits fell janky or places I my misfire more... kinda like me getting back into levelling PLD again recently, I moved my AoE's, but put them in a spot where if I misfired in trying to be quick I turn off Shield Oath...not that I annoyed a random healer in a dungeon by doing exactly that & not realising I did it or anything...

[Palibun]

I wasn't excepting so many replies, thanks for all the input.

I'll probably alternate between AST and SCH to see which i like better, theres way too many WHM players so i rather try something fun and unique. I'd really like to stick with AST, but if it's a chore then im fine with dropping it.

[Brandedblade]

I wasn't excepting so many replies, thanks for all the input.

I'll probably alternate between AST and SCH to see which i like better, theres way too many WHM players so i rather try something fun and unique. I'd really like to stick with AST, but if it's a chore then im fine with dropping it.

It's only a chore if you find it tedious to play, if you find that you enjoy it then it won't feel that way.

[Mortex]

It’s is not the bad job it’s or more less whm brings more dmg with less effort and heals better then astro. But with astro you have a lot of different things too do, so the job isn’t as boring as whm is.

[Wawachume]

If this is going turn into another long AST thread, I'm going to say what I always say. Mostly just in case this is the one long AST thread SE reads.

My problem with astrologian these days is that it feels like a DPS job.

Normally in MMORPGs, healer gameplay is about problem-solving and managing the situations that come up. You have to choose the right spell for the right circumstances, taking into account things like target priorities and resource management.

DPS classes are different. They can't really be situational because for a DPSer, there are only two possible situations: "do as much damage to this thing as possible" and "do as much damage to all these things as possible". So instead, DPS classes have "rotation"---their spells interact not with the situation but with each other, and the object is to cast them in the right sequence to maximize output.

The old astrologian cards were very much a healer mechanic. They were random, so you didn't always get what you wanted, but you accepted the situation as it was and played the cards where they'd be most useful, while also using your other spells as circumstances dictated.

The new astrologian cards are more of a DPS mechanic. Their effects are much simpler than the old version---now it's just "+X% damage"---and the lost complexity has been replaced by arbitrary interactions within the system. Instead of putting the arrow on the black mage because they're entering a fire phase, you put the arrow on whoever (preferably melee) because you already have a solar and celestial seal and now you need a lunar one to buff your ultimate damage ability.

This isn't necessarily bad. Maybe it's good to have one healer work like a DPS; some people might enjoy it. But personally, it means I have no interest in playing AST at the moment. It's just not why I started healing. If the old cards were unacceptable, I would honestly have preferred to have no RNG card system, and make up for it with increased complexity elsewhere in the job.

[Tigore]

It feels like I missed the boat here, sniff. Astrologian can still heal alright in most content. Probably the only priority change now is to bump up their mana regen a bit. Especially for Nocturnal Sect shields. Try to use Diurnal Sect Heal over times if you can.

Most of the complaints for them feeling terrible stems from the card system not feeling fun for some players. I can't comment on using a controller since I am a PC person on a Keyboard and MMO Mouse for this game. For me, it's just another iteration of the system since it still gives you cards you don't need. Redraw sometimes gets you a card with a different seal, but can still screw you after using all 3 charges. At that point, I convert it to Lord / Lady since the card I don't need is going to make me get the same seals otherwise. We need 3 different seals to maximize the Divination cooldown.

In conclusion, it's going to come down to whether you like or tolerate the new card system. Give it a try to see if it meshes with you.

[Palibun]

It feels like I missed the boat here, sniff.

No missed boat here, all input is good imo, after all i might end changing my mind!