Some thoughts on Level Sync and Abilities

[YojimboM]

(Though factoring in tank damage penalties, its closer to 1000)

???

There are no "tank damage penalties". Tank stances only increase threat now. That's it. The new tank trait that substitutes for old stance effects is a flat 20% damage reduction, and increased stat weight for vitality and strength (which, if anything, means they do more damage now).

I see weird stuff like this constantly on the OF and can't figure out where it even starts.

[MariaArvana]

???

There are no "tank damage penalties". Tank stances only increase threat now. That's it. The new tank trait that substitutes for old stance effects is a flat 20% damage reduction, and increased stat weight for vitality and strength (which, if anything, means they do more damage now).

I see weird stuff like this constantly on the OF and can't figure out where it even starts.

Not the tank stance, no.

The tank trait mastery actually nerfs tank damage by making STR worth less point per point than other jobs. Otherwise tanks would be doing much closer to dps than they are now due to the fact they gained a TON of str on their accessories the instant SHB started on top of gaining huge potencies to their rotation due to SHB changes, yet were only seeing very minor gains to dps by the time they reached 80 conmpared to their SB numbers, when the potencies and STR changes should have given them a several hundred to a thousand dps gains.

Tank mastery is literally giving you the positive effects of old tank stance's mitigation while nerfing your damage output by weakening the value of STR for tanks. And it starts in discords like the Balance where people do painstaking amounts of math and testing to figure out how the internals of the game work. Tank's are literally > 20% weaker proportionally with the same amount of STR than they were in SB due to the existence of the tank mastery trait.

Ergo, most of the potencies you see on tanks, when you want to compare them to a dps's potencies by relation, are roughly 20-30% weaker. hence Total eclipse can stave off about 1000 potency from actual dps jobs, whereas the sticker value for it says 1200.

[Barraind]

The tank trait mastery actually nerfs tank damage by making STR worth less point per point than other jobs.

As someone who has been doing math work on tanks (and crafters), you're going to need to put some sources for that, because its something that nobody else is talking about.

tanks would be doing much closer to dps than they are now due to the fact they gained a TON of str on their accessories the instant SHB started on top of gaining huge potencies to their rotation due to SHB changes, yet were only seeing very minor gains to dps

Significantly more changed besides strength on accessories between 70 and 80. Tanks melded for those stats on accessories prior to this, so the actual gain stat-wise this expansion is almost negligible. You gain between 72 and 120 secondary stats per piece (since you're melding those and not mainstat), compared to the relative value of those slots in SB.

If you want to look purely at tank damage at 70 with everything re-melded, you can, but the relative difference isnt -20%.

[MariaArvana]

As someone who has been doing math work on tanks (and crafters), you're going to need to put some sources for that, because its something that nobody else is talking about.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=687481398

From the theoryjerkers themselves, some nice hard math.

"AP and tank AP added. Tank mastery nerfs damage, so it has different tiers."

Then also in the TJ discord, there have been multiple discussions and maths to show tank's AP is only 2/3 as strong as a DPS's with equivalent gear due to tank mastery adjusting how AP scales on tanks.

The STR on those accessories was roughly 51 at the end of SB, giving it 76 total for tanks who melded. Now those same accessories jumped 100 some odd STR to 171, so tanks even when melded gained roughly 500 STR literally the moment SHB dropped, but their dps hadn't changed from level 70 due to tank mastery changing how their AP was calculated by weakening the worth of STR and nerfing them by 20-30% some odd. My point in bringing that up is to show that tank damage -was- nerfed anyway, as tanks would be doing closer to 11k-12k dps if tank mastery wasn't affecting their AP.

[Verlyn]

In fairness, those two instances (and others right around them) are sorta poor examples due to the wide ilvl range.

That is precisely why it isn't worth taking them into consideration when it comes to "balance" in low level dungeons. They're just screwed nomatter what.

[Nora_of_Mira]

With 5.0 they've neutered low-level play so badly in order to fix high level play that I don't see how new people can think the game is fun.

if they're new and low level, how do they know what they are missing?

[PyurBlue]

if they're new and low level, how do they know what they are missing?

They won't know what they're missing, but they could get bored of pressing the same few buttons repeatedly. I remember from my leveling experience that I didn't want to upgrade from THM to BLM because I lost my healing which gave me less to do in dungeons. Granted I shouldn't have been trying to heal people as a THM, but looking out for other players' HP while DPSing was more fun with such a simple rotation.