Adding Stances

[Silver-Strider]

I don't see Cleric Stance ever returning for WHM. I can see SE combining the SB version of Cleric Stance with Presence of Mind to have it increase WHM's damage/SpS all in 1 convenient package than adding in a mechanic that, while fun for some, wasn't without issue either. Glare mages scare me enough as is that I don't want them to go even more DPS crazy and forget to turn off CS when they actually have to heal.

For SCH, I can actually think of 2 Stance Ideas that could work though. Making E-Tactics into a Stance that removes SCH's shielding for just flat out heals and turning Selene into the Noct version of Eos for more mitigation. Adding utility to Seraph, such as Fey Wind, would make Seraph actually feel more powerful, which I feel it needs to be because it just doesn't really feel necessary the majority of the time.

AST has a lot more problems than just Noct sect, which just needs to have the same cost on their abilities as Diurnal sect abilities IMO. Something that AST does need desperately is MP management outside of Lucid Dreaming and Light Speed such as adding a small MP restore on Earthly Star or Celestial Opposition. Then, they need to increase the duration of Divination to 30 seconds to make it actually worth building up 3 seals for as right now, the contribution its providing just isn't good enough to justify AST in raids; Seals also need less RNG associated with them so I suggest that Redraw changes the card you currently have into a guaranteed new seal and that Unplay be changed into Inversion that changes the Card but not the Seal type (So Balance can be changed into Bole, Ewer into Arrow, etc.) Finally, buff Collective Unconsciousness to 150 cure potency so its actually useful because 50 is pitiful.

[Wawachume]

Honestly, I kind of hated cleric stance during Heavensward. If I ever pressed the cleric stance button, that meant it was 7.5 seconds before I could heal someone. Granted, it doesn't sound so bad now---maybe I've gotten better, and besides, it'd be more like 5 seconds today because there are more instant-casts---but at the time it was terrifying.

My solution was to just never use cleric stance, which a) made me feel kind of useless, and b) was discouraging because I wasn't able to use the job's full toolkit.

Other complexity-adding mechanics, like DoT-management, never bothered me because I could learn them gradually. As I got used to things, the uptime on my DoTs increased. But there was never an all-or-nothing, take-the-plunge moment like with cleric stance.

I also just kind of hate stance-dancing.

That said, I'm not totally opposed to them bringing it back just for white mage, as long as they didn't also do something that made me hate scholar, while leaving astrologian the way it is now. As long as I have one I like.

I'm just saying, cleric stance was never a mechanic I personally enjoyed.

[Sloprano]

I'm all for either: Cleric stance returning in it's old fashion (healing cut in half, damage increased by maybe a quarter) or each healer getting their own stances. Because both stances, and unique systems, accessible early on are really lacking. Just to clarify, for Stances would be turning your entire playstyle on it's head: Offering lucrative buffs, but also massive downsides making you think twice if it's really safe to do this. They could also either alter skills, or straight up make some skills only available when you're in the "high risk" stance. Best thing is not every healer would need to have something like this, I'm wanting this on SCH because that's the one I so enjoyed taking larger and larger risks with knowing I could keep the party safe while doing this.

I'd stop short of having all healers scale damage of INT, only just SCH. If not only to further to differentiate them, Scholar could solidify in it's Arcanist roots which carries the drawback of having damage scale of int, so you need swap the stats around depending on what you'd want to do in one or more stances. This could further be expanded upon with Fairies both offering different pet skills, but also affect or entirely change what skills you had available. The complete opposite of having Eos and Selene being color swaps and the skills themselves is on your own hotbar. Wish I could come up with something for WHM and AST, but experience there is limited to stories told by friends and forum-goers.

[Rivinhal]

I also have issues with a shields-vs-heals division within a job, because I think it's really hard to balance across different content. Either the shield stance is too powerful in raids, or the heals stance is too powerful in dungeons. The second way is basically how astrologian is now, where there's just no reason to use nocturnal stance in a dungeon.


I wouldn't like it. Any kind of mode-switching just isn't my favorite mechanic.

I think Noct stance needs to be addressed either way. The MP issues with it are apparent.
Also I like the division of "Pure healer" / "Shield healer" / "Buffer/Jack-of-all-trades healer". Giving SCH the ability to heal normally would kinda ruin that.

As for the fairy idea, I don't feel like I'm explaining it very well. I don't really envision it as a "mode-switching" mechanic, but I'm having trouble coming up with a good comparison. So I understand your skepticism.

They are, especially with how toxic old cleric was. Old cleric exchanged your mind stat for intelligence. Healer DPS scaled on intelligence for some ungodly reason. So you would do 0 healing basically while you did damage. Fat fingering that or going into it at the wrong time would often mean a wipe. It wasn't a fun mechanic unless you were super optimized.

Again though, that seems like a poor reason for removing it. I mean there are a lot of abilities that when misused could result in a wipe. That doesn't mean they should be removed lol. Misplays are misplays.

I do sympathize with the fun aspect though, and that's why I think they should have reworked it to make it more intuitive and more fun (or potentially less "all or nothing"). But just removing it seems like a disservice.

[Duskane]

cleric stance removal was for the best
so many times you got a 200hp heal at lvl 60 because they forgot to turn off cleric stance

[Lodi]

cleric stance removal was for the best
so many times you got a 200hp heal at lvl 60 because they forgot to turn off cleric stance

Despite the massive dumbing down of the healer role as a whole, there are still Cure bots everywhere regardless of the level. Making a class simpler doesn't turn bad players into good players, it just downplays their mistakes and make them believe they are doing the right thing because they can clear all the story content.

Saying that the removal of CS is good because some people misused it is like saying "some tanks don't use their defensive cooldowns so we should remove them all and give them an additional 15% passive mitigation instead"
or "some black mages only use blizzard spells so we should remove the ice/fire stances".

Bad players should step up, instead of forcing classes to step down to their level.

[Duskane]

Bad players should step up, instead of forcing classes to step down to their level.

they will appeal to the masses
and cleric stance was a awkward tool, healer damage being based on Mind is a good thing

[LariaKirin]

they will appeal to the masses
and cleric stance was a awkward tool, healer damage being based on Mind is a good thing

Doesn't have to work the same way (swap int and mind). It could simply work with percentages of damage and healing outputs.

[Duskane]

Doesn't have to work the same way (swap int and mind). It could simply work with percentages of damage and healing outputs.

im not against stances in the slightest i even wish there was even a job that worked around stance dancing
but "old cleric stance" was not good design
and i also think this is not really what healers need to make there Job a bit more engaging

[AphraelAmarantha]

If stance dancing returned to whm, I would drop whm real quick. We don’t need complexity, it’s fine where it’s at.

I feel like the majority of players on this site don’t want casuals playing this game. Let’s make the classes harder to play! Let’s add a rotation! Let’s add stance dancing! Let’s add some stupid bs where suddenly casual players can no longer play. But mah engagement to the game! I’m already engaged just trying to keep people alive. Maybe all you people who think the game is a snooze fest should go play a way harder game instead of making it unfriendly to noobs and casuals. SE made these changes for a reason, why go backwards?