For AST changes, just potency buff malefic and combust...

[Wawachume]

Raids are what really matters though. If you buff for dungeons it can throw balance off in raids, where it really matters.

I'm not exactly sure what people mean when they say raids "matter" more than other content. I do acknowledge that something like a potency tweak is likely to have far more sweeping effects in a raid than elsewhere. But I still think balance matters elsewhere, insofar as it matters to players. It just requires less attention.

Imagine them buffing Afflatus Misery to 1,500 potency because WHMs felt they weren't doing enough damage in dungeons. (Would never happen, role with me here.). That would absolutely break WHM in raids, to the point that it would be optimal to just spam lily abilities and misery as much as humanly possible. WHM damage would be stupid high. They have to balance around that first.

Yes. And just buffing AST pDPS would cause issues in raids, I know. But if too many people feel like AST has issues in non-raid content, that may need to be addressed also.

This is why I'm trying to look at alternative solutions that work for raid-, dungeon-, and solo-focused players. Well, that and I just think it's interesting.

(Admittedly, though, I have no idea whether enough players are dissatisfied for it to be a problem. Myself, I've been fine with AST in dungeons, even before the 5.1 buffs; I just hate the playstyle. It's pretty terrible in solo stuff, but there's very little solo combat in this game.)

They are all very close and comparable right now. AST will outscale WHM probably next tier, and will be a bit better in the third tier this expansion.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if this turns out to be true. Which, for me, is another indication of how difficult it can be to balance all this stuff. I don't know that I agree with the perception that ShB WHM is overpowered in dungeons, but it's definitely the best dungeon healer. And yet apparently it's still at some risk of falling behind in raids.

WHM damage is already stupid high. They don't need any kind of buff.

Oh, obviously. I didn't mean "buff WHM rDPS"; I meant "give WHM an rDPS buff ability (and nerf their pDPS to compensate)". This is probably the simplest way to balance things.

Then there is 0 reason for cards to eixist.

Well, not zero; there's still pre-ShB bole and ewer. But yes, that's an issue with balancing things by removing healer rDPS. It'd be fine for SCH, but would gut AST. (Though I suspect I might personally prefer the new AST that emerged over the current one.)

that is a lot of developer time and resources for something that doesn't matter.

It is definitely the most complicated solution of the three. Its only real benefit is that it minimizes homogenization.

[Verlyn]

I don't know how you can disagree with balancing around raid content. Its the only content where job balance actually matters.

And I totally understand where you're coming from there. Balancing from the top down is a valid strategy if the goal is parity. I just don't think parity matters as much as people think it does (it should be strived for, but not the priority). I think metas will form regardless of what happens so long as you have different jobs and different fights. And what happens when you try to homogenize in the name of parity? You get a raid that is basically four trials, and kits that feel nearly interchangeable.

To that end, it's not really *balancing* from the top down that I have a problem with. It's *designing* from the top down, because those raids? The very top? That's maybe like 2% of the game's content. I'm not gonna say something hyperbolic like healing is only fun in raids (You can't train the healer main out of me that easy), but when I feel weak and superfluous during the leveling process and my kit rarely engages me outside of raids, that's a big problem. These kits are losing their fantasy in place of function, losing tools that would be helpful in non-raid situations in order to smooth out raids, and gaining tools that are superfluous in all but the extreme situations.

It's a pretty difficult balancing act, to create parity and consistency while having kits that are functional and yet full of distinct mechanics and flavor. In Shadowbringers, it seems like they took an easy way out and swung that pendulum too far to one side.

But again, none of this is meant to lecture you or change your mind, just to show you where I'm coming from.

[Osmond]

...I've reading other people's feedback and some are pretty good, some are questionable, but I understand it. Nocturnal Sect, if i'm not mistaken they constantly change though certain patches, rework the system in trying to make it better since HW and still no one likes to use it as much as the devs want them to. Even if they buff the shield potency and such, it was still one of the worse sects to use for AST. I don't even think patch 5.1 is going to fix it(as in getting people to play that version more long term), they may as well scrap that sect altogether, but I understand that the devs have to do something with it. Maybe 6.x series, it might work this time. I mean unless they want to further increase the % the amount of HP received via aspect. helios, celes. intersection and opposition and reduce the MP cost of aspect. benefic to 500? That's all I can think of them doing. ...If they do that though they'll have to buff it's MP cost of aspect. helios to 1300 and nerf SCH's succor cost to 1100 since it'll be the stronger mitigation AoE shield...hmm...

[ForteNightshade]

It is literally impossible to make Diurnal and Nocturnal equally good. It just can't happen. The problem is when one exacerbates the already hilariously bad MP economy of AST.

Assuming that to be the case, then the whole Sect concept needs to be overhauled because it means Astro never competes with Scholar—the only healer to have never once not been a guaranteed pick.

Every class is better on keyboard/mouse. Sleeve draw is a pain on console, yeah. Should be fixed. One of the best SCHs in deltascape was a console player, so its always been playable at near max level on console.

This is entirely subjective. FFXIV has an excellent controller setup that functions on par with keyboard/mouse. Sleeve Draw is only an issue because it requires targeting or macros. Frankly, it's a horrendously designed skill regardless of your setup choice, and should be redone completely.

Collective is alright, could use a buff.
Horoscope is stupid good.
Neutral is amazing in both sects.

... Collective is absolute garbage. It's in desperate need of a buff. The Regen tick is weaker than bloody Aurora.

[HyoMinPark]

I’ve never had any issues with using a controller with any job in this game, and I’ve leveled all of them. That is, until 5.0 AST was released. Play is just far too clunky on a controller, especially with Sleeve Draw active; and almost requires macros if one wants to upkeep ABC (as well as requires Lightspeed, which is horrendous design: a skill should never be locked into being used with another, as it removes versatility). I shouldn’t have to configure 4 to 8 different macros for Light and Full parties to use a gimmick inherent to a job.

I could go on and on about how terrible I find this new card system—but it will do no good. The developers are stubborn on keeping this abysmal system with no flavor and no versatility.

[Crushnight]

Yeah. They did this during sigmascape when they reduced Malefic's cast time to 1.5s. It gave them several hundred DPS because they no longer had caster tax.

No arguments here with that, the devs stubbornness with not giving WHM any party/individual buff to other people makes their own job harder because any buff to AST could quickly snowball WHM into being less desirable as it has happened in the past twice.

The difference between them isn't nearly as big as you're making it out to be.

Thing is i can't prove/disprove this(thus also no one can dispprove my claim either) due to the site that shall not be named having updated and thus reset all parses during SB (yay >_>). This will just have to be a case of we have different opinions on it i seem to remember WHM having 30k+ parses in Sigmascape but i can't prove so moot point here.

It is literally impossible to make Diurnal and Nocturnal equally good. It just can't happen. The problem is when one exacerbates the already hilariously bad MP economy of AST.

I know this which is why i used the words too inferior, it would be impossible to have them equal, one will always be slightly better than the other just like true balance is an impossible dream without full homogenization. It is just right now Noct is too much weaker than Diurnal and while the devs are looking at it, i highly doubt they would solve this issue ever.

Every class is better on keyboard/mouse. Sleeve draw is a pain on console, yeah. Should be fixed. One of the best SCHs in deltascape was a console player, so its always been playable at near max level on console.

Very subjective but the goal of the developers with having a dual peripheral system should be every job should not feel the need to use a specific peripheral something they have failed for the 1st time with AST this expansion.

Collective is alright, could use a buff.
Horoscope is stupid good.
Neutral is amazing in both sects.

Collective absolutely needs a buff it is way to weak for the conditions it imposes especially compared to Sacred Soil.

Horoscope is good but it has problems, 1. Requires a aoe gcd in 10 secs of activating something we try to avoid using unless necessary, 2. if i proc it why can't it go off automatically like Indom/Earthly Star, 3. Ties in with number 2 but its range is a bit small if you have an idiot in Egypt and you use procced Horoscope the heal doesn't go off on them and you cannot proc it when they finally get in range because Horoscope is on cd. Yes this is a more their problem but still it is wasting more of my resources when it doesn't need to.

Neutral is very good, Neutral in Nocturnal is the issue it should reduce Aspected Benefic's 1k mp cost in Nocturnal to 500mp when Neutral is active as right now if you are in Nocturnal you are essentially wasting 500 mp for the exact same effect as Diurnal Neutral which is why i highlighted Neutral's interaction with Nocturnal.

[MitsukiKimura]

CU is awful. Especially in the Savage raiding tier when I need to constantly be doing something. I should not have to stand in place for 10-15 seconds for a weak 10% damage reduction compared to the placeable damage reduction shield SCH has or a White Mage's Asylum. 99% of the time I just use Celestial Opposition which is on a 60 second timer, 4 times the heal and regen. A good portion of the time trying to weave my cards and shields, the animation takes a bit that I end up throwing the card on myself by accident. Frustrating. I only use Horoscope if I have Swift Cast available to use right after. I Love AST and It's my Main, it just needs to feel special. I don't feel unique playing it. I really hope they take some serious feedback about the class. Celestial Intersection needs a slight buff while in the Durinal sect, 7k shield feels like nothing in the current content and it's usually gone in one auto attack which makes me bury my face in my hands.

[HyoMinPark]

CU is awful. Especially in the Savage raiding tier when I need to constantly be doing something. I should not have to stand in place for 10-15 seconds for a weak 10% damage reduction compared to the placeable damage reduction shield SCH has or a White Mage's Asylum. 99% of the time I just use Celestial Opposition which is on a 60 second timer, 4 times the heal and regen. A good portion of the time trying to weave my cards and shields, the animation takes a bit that I end up throwing the card on myself by accident. Frustrating. I only use Horoscope if I have Swift Cast available to use right after. I Love AST and It's my Main, it just needs to feel special. I don't feel unique playing it. I really hope they take some serious feedback about the class. Celestial Intersection needs a slight buff while in the Durinal sect, 7k shield feels like nothing in the current content and it's usually gone in one auto attack which makes me bury my face in my hands.

Even in Savage, you would never channel CU save for a period when the boss isn’t targetable. You flash it for the mitigation to pop briefly before whichever raid-wide you’re hoping to mitigate, and then return to Malefic spamming while the HoT ticks. Problem with that is that the HoT is incredibly weak—both Sacred Soil and Asylum are infinitely better. I honestly have no idea how they could have approved nerfing CU so much when Soil is on a 30 second cooldown. Even if it requires an Aetherflow, it’s still ridiculous compared to CU’s 90s cooldown.

If they expected played to channel CU for its full duration, it goes to show how out of touch the developers are with the way we play in the raid scene.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

SE has always been oddly stubborn when it comes to healers.

Their refusal to admit the new card system was a mistake reminds me of their refusal to ever give WHM raid buffs, even though it would solve so much and be easier to balance.
I don't know what it is, but when they have a bright idea for healers they won't budge on the idea and would rather constantly try to make it seem good when it had no chance to (pure healer WHM and lilies).

[Sylvain]

As a qol suggestion I would allow Minor Arcana to be a toggle-able action.
Once toggled on, when no card are already drawn, it draw a lady or lord. Saving the player one weaving sequence.

Something needs to be done for controller user (mostly during the opener....)

The last change to Sleeve Draw was a great addition, however the excess redraw makes for too much weaving, it's especially annoying on controller where macro are almost mandatory for quick card use. The fact that macro don't queue doesn't help.

Perhaps sleeve draw could make malefic IV instant until all cards are drawn. This would allow AST to keep their Light Speed for other usage, whether it is movement or mp management.

Regarding AST rdps, while at higher level of play its onpar with other healers, it really struggles at lower perf. Cards do require more work and attention than spamming our main nuke or just pressing 1 key every 90s for a potent crit buff.
So I wouldn't go as far as 300 potency, because that would definitely be overkill. But perhaps a 20 potency buff to malefic or a 60~80 potency buff to combust would help. I don't think it would be a big issue if AST start to exceed WHM rdps only a very high perf considering the extra work required. But Ofc only if these gap would be marginal. (not like during SB)

And regarding mp management, yes, draw granting 500mp would be a very simple solution