Dungeon Discussion!

[Bocajo]

How about this for easy mode:

2 weeks since the update came out, and on my server only my LS and one other have speed runs done. (Total of like 20 people)

Some people are just bad at the game, and SE loves to cater to them.

I understand you are afraid of losing degrees of difficulty from the game. Being the first to overcome an encounter, and work out your own strategy certainly takes talent, and my hats off to you if you and your ls achieved this. However, please avoid offensive blanket statements.

That being said, I would also like the primary focus of 2.0 to shift away from these types of dungeons. They can remain as something for 8-man parties, but large scale pve should be something different imo.

I think something like the battle arena from FF7 (kinda like Nyzul isle) would be nice. Fighting progressively harder enemies, with increasing chances of good drops. Granted this should not be the only content, just an idea.

[Shiggysonson]

This is probably just "filler" content designed to give us something to do until 2.0. Since there's a lack of things to do, the content needs to be spammable with short re-enter times. The 1hr time limit is a good way to keep the same dungeon interesting and intense even if you do it over and over. I don't think every content in 2.0 should have a special reward for doing a speed run, but for the current filler content I think it's a clever way to add another level of difficulty. It requires mastering the dungeon and playing the jobs/classes effectively. You should be rewarded for it.

[Jinko]

Personally, my greatest issue with the instanced dungeons is the current limitation of one group. In my eyes, a raid requires more then 1 group, and what we have now is simply glorified group content.

That's because what we currently have are not raids, they are dungeons.

What I dislike about dungeon the most is the timers, I see no purpose for them, and don't give me that BS about instanced servers getting hammered because too many people are in at one time. (it's 2012 this issue shouldn't exist in MMO's any more especially ones with such a small population as 14's)

What I would like to see is mini bosses, which must be killed to spawn the main bosses/drop keys to open doors etc.

Maybe even have trash monsters drop a key item to open a door.

Less linear maps, I liked how Toto-rak worked ie having to enter 3 times to fight each boss.

[syntaxlies]

They are giving us the best thing they can right now with the server limitations. Im sure crystal towers will be pretty fancy.

[Jinko]

They are giving us the best thing they can right now with the server limitations. Im sure crystal towers will be pretty fancy.

Server limitation ..?? /sigh

Dungeon design has very little to do with server limitation and more about development and innovation.

[syntaxlies]

Server limitation ..?? /sigh

Dungeon design has very little to do with server limitation and more about development and innovation.

this whole game has to do with server limitations. The complex code is what makes it hard to make anything.

[Scarface]

I understand you are afraid of losing degrees of difficulty from the game. Being the first to overcome an encounter, and work out your own strategy certainly takes talent, and my hats off to you if you and your ls achieved this. However, please avoid offensive blanket statements.

That being said, I would also like the primary focus of 2.0 to shift away from these types of dungeons. They can remain as something for 8-man parties, but large scale pve should be something different imo.

I think something like the battle arena from FF7 (kinda like Nyzul isle) would be nice. Fighting progressively harder enemies, with increasing chances of good drops. Granted this should not be the only content, just an idea.

Wrapping all the baddies into a blanket statement isn't uncalled for, and you shouldn't be offended, unless you are one as well.

Either way, I still agree with your statement of large scale PVE.

[Fiosha_Maureiba]

These are my thoughts on dungeons, in general (contrary to the fun happy thing I posted in the 4-hour dungeon thread). Extended thoughts inside hidden boxes.

Dungeon Length
I understand why the 1-hour time limit is there from a design perspective on casual play sessions. Coupled with Speed Run chests, I fear that it has resulted in a distorted playstyle. Would like to see checkpoints.

I would *like* to see checkpoints where the party can start the dungeon again from that checkpoint, 1-hour time limit renewed (no speed run achievement when using a checkpoint). When players clears the dungeon, their option for start at a checkpoint will reset.

If a dungeon was designed to be longer than one hour, then the objective of a party would be to get to the next checkpoint before the time limit.

Dungeon Rewards
I am for a guaranteed tokenized system. If we're not playing the lottery, time investment should usually have something to show for it. Speed run for achievement, not as a requirement for the loot. Speed run may still influence number of chests.

I am for rewarding players who have invested their time into clearing a dungeon. Should the time come where dungeons are extended in length to say four hours, a party of 8 to 16 clear it, and only have dark matter to show for it? Clearing the dungeon in itself would be a type of achievement. But a good chunk of people come back to a dungeon for the loot rewards and for them that incentive could be a little less aggravating (not instant gratification, but less aggravating).

When a player invests forty hours toward gaining XP, crafting, gathering, or farming materials, they have something to show for it. Some type of character advancement or financial gain. When a player invests forty hours toward primal fights or dungeons, they may not have anything to show for it. Players who get their rewards earlier or have prioritized their game time may not see a problem with the current setup (or even a scarcer setup).

In the absence of a good drop, I do believe in a guaranteed token drop. Different items, based on their rarity, may require a different amount of tokens. So if someone clears a dungeon or primal fight 140 times (equivalent of 70+ hours of investment), they shouldn't be 0/7 in their weapons or never got the loot in that dungeon, but gradually approach their goal. That they can move on to other content.

In terms of MMO progression, I would hope this chance loot concept on instanced content was a thing of the past, i.e. Everquest or FFXI. Or possibly only popular in some Korean developed MMOs. i.e. Aion.