The most Limited Content: Low-Level Dungeons

[Brill_]

We aren't talking about SE just giving high level players their full kits and letting them go ham in Copperbell Mines. We are talking about SE balancing the kit in low level content, so it can be used in a low level content. The dungeons would still go at the same pace - the difference would be that high level players would have access to more tools, and require to do a proper rotation for the same damage.

So a mnk should be scaled down in sastasha so that GL4 does the same amount of damage as GL1? Sounds like a waste of developer resources.

[Mavrias]

One should not forget that those dungeons are not included in the roulette system to accomodate higher level players, but to help the ones who are at that stage in their game progression. The game reward you for the inconvenience with a nice chunk of exp (if you still need such thing) and/or various currencies. If you got a role in need you even get more compensation for having to suffer those15-20 minutes of hardship.

How does a high level player leaving when they see its unfun old sastasha yet again, help the new players again?

[Reap00]

One should not forget that those dungeons are not included in the roulette system to accomodate higher level players, but to help the ones who are at that stage in their game progression. The game reward you for the inconvenience with a nice chunk of exp (if you still need such thing) and/or various currencies. If you got a role in need you even get more compensation for having to suffer those15-20 minutes of hardship.

The thread should have ended after this post.

[YojimboM]

One should not forget that those dungeons are not included in the roulette system to accomodate higher level players, but to help the ones who are at that stage in their game progression. The game reward you for the inconvenience with a nice chunk of exp (if you still need such thing) and/or various currencies. If you got a role in need you even get more compensation for having to suffer those15-20 minutes of hardship.

You don't get exp for these dungeons. You get a pity "bonus" for finishing your roulette that amounts to less than half the exp you'd have gotten if it were an appropriately-leveled dungeon. The leveling roulette system in this game has always been abysmal, but there's not much to be done about it.

The main issue is that they butchered all the jobs down to literally nothing at low levels so doing those dungeons is no longer interesting. They continue to water down jobs and don't do anything to compensate being synced, probably because they already don't know how to balance the game at 80 as it is. Games are supposed to be fun, but I doubt anyone will say getting Sastaha or Toto-Rak as a level 78 trying to get to Mt. Gulg is "fun" for their roulette when they're locked out of playing their job. Getting a low level dungeon essentially takes your job away from you because you lose all the skills that define the rotation.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

but I doubt anyone will say getting Sastaha or Toto-Rak as a level 78 trying to get to Mt. Gulg is "fun" for their roulette when they're locked out of playing their job. Getting a low level dungeon essentially takes your job away from you because you lose all the skills that define the rotation.

If you are Lv71+ and you want a Lv71+ dungeon, then the solution is to queue for said dungeons, not Roulettes. Old content gets facerolled as is due to gearsync and pre-50 potency changes from SHB release and I believe one can put up with playing with a basic kit when doing a daily roulette dungeon for 15min if they roll a low-end dungeon. If you can't deal with "not having fun" for a while, don't do it.

[MariaArvana]

You don't get exp for these dungeons. You get a pity "bonus" for finishing your roulette that amounts to less than half the exp you'd have gotten if it were an appropriately-leveled dungeon. The leveling roulette system in this game has always been abysmal, but there's not much to be done about it.

The exp bonus you get scales based on the dungeon you got in the roulette. At level 79 getting sastasha can just as easily get you just as much exp as a Mt Gulg run. (Both hovering around 10-15mil)

But on topic, I've said it before in the past, but unlocking all skills at lower levels just unlocks a balancing nightmare for the developers.

'Potency scaling' would either take way too much effort, time and planning to get right, or it would create a situation where leveling up actually makes you weaker in lower level dungeons, or sheer ridiculously OP (even more so than now).
If you want to implement potency scaling, then what milestone would you balance it around to give parity to the newbies who only have 2-3 buttons at their actual level?

If you balance the scaled potency at around 90% of your classes's capability to be on parity with newbies, you'd literally make a massive chunk of the player population do even less than if they only had access to 2 buttons, since a good chunk of the population can't execute their rotations properly.

If you balance it to be very forgiving on the rotation to meet parity, then you'd have dps that have even the slightest shred of a clue of their optimal rotation doing 2-5x as much damage at lower levels and completely obliterate even the slightest sense of difficulty any low level content might possess. Not to mention, having newbies would be an active hindrance if people were wanting to get in & out as fast as possible.

Like, compare a level 80 WAR to a level 15 MRD. The WAR would be capable of not only using their entire mitigation kit where the MRD only has rampart. The WAR would be capable of using a full almighty IR Decimate chain paired with Nascent Flash for stupid OP levels of lifesteal where the MRD would have none. Heck, even compare a level 80 WHM to a lvl 15 CNJ. The 80 whm has access to all kinds of OGCD heals, regens, % mitigators and aoe damage spells the CNJ doesn't. Potency and skill scaling when handled improperly would create a system where having newer players would be an active hindrance, and history has shown time and again that such systems can easily be open for abuse.

While the level sync isn't the greatest system, it achieves its job on creating parity for the most part, the only outlier being stat syncing. A better solution would be to maintain parity by having jobs learn a lot more of their skills at lower levels; I've always vouched for the idea that a job's core fundamentals should be finished by level 50, with 51+ stuff only being additions/changes/etc to the core rotation. Also every job should have aoe by level 15 tbh.

[Jojoya]

While the level sync isn't the greatest system, it achieves its job on creating parity for the most part, the only outlier being stat syncing. A better solution would be to maintain parity by having jobs learn a lot more of their skills at lower levels; I've always vouched for the idea that a job's core fundamentals should be finished by level 50, with 51+ stuff only being additions/changes/etc to the core rotation. Also every job should have aoe by level 15 tbh.

If you give a job most of its skills at a low level, what are you going to give jobs at higher levels to prevent leveling from feeling pointless?

[MariaArvana]

If you give a job most of its skills at a low level, what are you going to give jobs at higher levels to prevent leveling from feeling pointless?

Do what they did for PLD in SHB.

At level 70, the core of your PLD rotation is complete. as you go up to level 80, you don't get any abilities that drastically change the PLD rotation; only moves that complement it and add to it OGCD wise (Intervene), or swap out current abilities with new things that still keep your rotation the same functionally (Confitteor, Attonement). None of the new PLD abilities change up the rotation; merely add to it as you level up. If they make it so that every job is functionally capable before 50, with all moves you learn past 50 to simply augment and complement the rotation as you level up, you preserve leveling being important while making a much funner kit to use at lower levels.

BLM is also similar. Your rotation is extremely similar to as it was at level 70 functionally, just with small additions or new functional elements to spice up the job while keeping its core gameplay the same.

heck, even Dancer is a great showcase for this. Your rotation is basically finished as soon as you unlock it, with most of the 60+ skills merely being extensions of current abilities or OGCDs to help supplement the job.

Also, being able to do max level content is a pretty powerful motivator for getting a job to 80 and making leveling important regardless of what moves I'd learn along the way, but that's just me.

TLR, front load the most important rotational skills below 50, move skills that complement the rotation and not drastically change it to after 50.

[hynaku]

Really hate it when your high level and get put in one first dungeons with new players. Makes it very hard for the tank to keep the enmity when your in way higher level gear. Some times I had to wait before attacking because of it. What is really funny is some times healer and dps has way more health than the tank does from it.

[Metallium]

I mean other than the last two dungeons.... I am very okay with. It's a break from having to do things optimally and is a relaxing break....

Also it's called leveling roulette....

Maybe if they had a roulette where you got dungeons that give you ALL your skills. Where you can do exactly what you are wanting. Maybe call it Professional Roulette? Skilled Roulette? EXPERT Roulette? We can figure out a bame for it later