How do we feel about tank damage right now?

[Shurrikhan]

You missed it. Healers did complain at the start as "Oh no we aren't doing as much as WHM this expansion, woe as us".

Wait, wait, wait... Your big "gotcha!" here is that a role complained about imbalance within its role (WHM outperforming SCH and AST despite having the lowest attention requirements, and least dependence on ability mapping or party coordination) before complaining about their shared limited offensive toolkit?

You realize this has been true of every role in every expansion, especially in the weeks leading up to Savage?

During those first few weeks, imbalances are always overemphasized because people still have the time to swap to a completely different job if need be. Once they are stuck with their choice for Savage, or have already unlocked all choices they'd even consider, then the emphasis switches to gameplay because there's no chance of wasting one's breath arguing for something that might not matter to that player. That isn't a issue point out that 'Healers only care about their on-screen damage numbers'; it's simply a matter flagging the more immediate issues to be dealt with immediately, and then dealing with the less immediate when each job at least has a good a shot at balance as it's going to get for the foreseeable future.

[Deceptus]

You know how many tanks would stop playing that role than regardless about rewards for being a tank to keep populations of them healthy? Like we would lose at least 85% if not more of tanks with that kind of attitude.
How about we make DPS have only two buttons to do their jobs with then?
>_>
Edit: Forgot to mention how insufferable playing as a tank would be just trying to do MSQ too.

Welcome to the current life of healers where we have 1 main attack and one 30s dot.

[Nedkel]

Welcome to the current life of healers where we have 1 main attack and one 30s dot.

And you are still doing more dps than tanks xD

[BarretOblivion]

You missed it. Healers did complain at the start as "Oh no we aren't doing as much as WHM this expansion, woe as us". Then they moved on to "oh the rotation" later.

...

Healers aren't complaining about thier damage right now

It really helps if you don't miss important words in sentances and try to strawman my argument. My point had nothing to do with at the beginning of the expansion.

[Deceptus]

And you are still doing more dps than tanks xD

In extreme outlier situations where the healers literally aren't doing their main role. That's a battle design failure, not a job design failure.

[BarretOblivion]

In extreme outlier situations where the healers literally aren't doing their main role. That's a battle design failure, not a job design failure.

Hahaha, no. With healers complaining enough for other roles to add extra mitigation then can get away with that damage especially when tanks get screw balled over by mechanic line ups.
*COUGH* Titan uplift *COUGH*

[MerlinCross]

Wait, wait, wait... Your big "gotcha!" here is that a role complained about imbalance within its role (WHM outperforming SCH and AST despite having the lowest attention requirements, and least dependence on ability mapping or party coordination) before complaining about their shared limited offensive toolkit?

You realize this has been true of every role in every expansion, especially in the weeks leading up to Savage?

During those first few weeks, imbalances are always overemphasized because people still have the time to swap to a completely different job if need be. Once they are stuck with their choice for Savage, or have already unlocked all choices they'd even consider, then the emphasis switches to gameplay because there's no chance of wasting one's breath arguing for something that might not matter to that player. That isn't a issue point out that 'Healers only care about their on-screen damage numbers'; it's simply a matter flagging the more immediate issues to be dealt with immediately, and then dealing with the less immediate when each job at least has a good a shot at balance as it's going to get for the foreseeable future.

If you think that's a 'gotcha', that says more about you than me.

It shouldn't take till Savage for players to figure out "Oh no look how limited our damage toolkit is" but they were all very VERY quick to point out how far behind the damage curve they were on WHM. All the complaints and the memes and the posts and the jokes, all about the Blood for the Blood Lily; when I would have figured they would just as easily see and complain about what they lacked. No, they like most of you cared only about being behind on the onscreen damage numbers more than anything about their class. "Someone else is doing more damage than us, woe oh woe".

Is it a gotcha? I dunno but I would expect top tier players to understand that stuff was going to get changed and not spend so much time on BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD LILY as they did. Odd they cared about the damage than their healing first and foremost.

...

It really helps if you don't miss important words in sentances and try to strawman my argument. My point had nothing to do with at the beginning of the expansion.

Doesn't it? What did it take for people to stop complaining about WHM and actually start more on how boring the rotation was. Oh right, balance patches. I question how much complaints we'd have from people if the damage was raised enough higher, just have to get the number right and then we'll get more posts about "Healers shouldn't do this much damage" or "AST is broken again" rather than how boring it is. What the community complains about changes with time and usually based around damage, not fun. Example, I keep seeing MNK after MNK topics about how busted they are damage wise but I rarely hear people talk about how fun the class is to actually play.

Besides, they aren't designed to be 'fun' they're designed to be 'balanced for end game' as the thread has told me, several times. If the masses find it boring, then according to that line of thinking, they are doing something wrong. Perhaps the answer is to make the damage higher?

Whatever, I've dropped healing this expansion cause I find the healing aspect to be so bleh, never mind anything relating to damage.

I'm still convinced you can make a boring or unfun class and the community will still flock to it if the Damage numbers are just right. Get a Tank that does BRD level damage and auto procs 30% damage reduction just in time for the tank buster. Sure it has 2 buttons but you can't tell me the community wouldn't love that on the raid team.

Look, I just want to be graded on something besides damage. Anything besides the consistent push for "Damage damage damage". But I'm convinced the community won't let that happen regardless of what the devs try to put in. Anything that doesn't let us push damage is either cheesed or mastered/geared out or complained.

So just change the game to reflect this demand and expectation for Damage. I'd leave, but I would expect people in this thread and elsewhere on the forums would find it to be a better game. At the very least axing the OT seems would go a long way to pleasing this DPS only set up we have.

[DRKoftheAzure]

In terms of actual fun based DPS rotation for tanks; GNB is 1st, PLD is 2nd, DRK/WAR dead last...


In terms of actual DPS numbers with what information we have thanks to outside sources, Tanks should be doing more than healers, but other than that, they are okay...


As for how each of the jobs in tank role perform on what they do as opposed to what they should be doing; some things might as well be on the role action at this point, and some role actions just should not be on role action...


-PLD could use some heals that apply shields or regens tied to the Oath Gauge and some reworks to their combo structure and Sword Oath buff.

-DRK needs a serious rework that actually feels like a rework into a better DRK as opposed to another WAR clone, i.e. more focus on the Syhphon Strike/Souleater aspect of HP/MP recovery through GCDs, reworking oGCDs that deal damage into GCDs, Darkside and Dark Arts being their own separate buttons again, Blood Weapon reworked into maintenance buff , more focus on HP shields for oGCDs, 3 single target combos(1 combo ender maintains Darkside, another maintains Blood Weapon, and the other is just MP/Blood Gauge/Dark Arts burst) and 2 AoE combos(1st AoE combo would maintain both Darkside and Blood Weapon and the 2nd would be MP/Blood Gauge/Dark Arts Burst), and finally Living Shadow is maintained by maintaining Darkside, maybe make Delirium some kind of damage buff, and please bring back Sole Survivor and have it be a Trick Attack that spreads to other targets when first target dies...

-WAR could use some adjustments that make it so that certain buffs that it has affect the whole party(i.e. Thrill of Battle, Inner Release) and rework Storm's Eye buff into a new Berserk buff (seperate button included) that WAR's need to maintain through a combo that requires making some new combos so that WAR has total of 3 single target combo, 2 AoE combos, all of which requires a different combo starter.

-Not really much to say about GNB other than Aurora could insta-heal for 1200 cure potency with the regen, Brutal Shell Could heal for more, and and expand upon Continuation

[BarretOblivion]

Doesn't it? What did it take for people to stop complaining about WHM and actually start more on how boring the rotation was.

Day 1 when healer mains were hitting lvl 80. That's litteraly all I heard from my static healers and other healers in game besides some WHMs realizing they had something all other healers should have... an offensive skill that is proc'd baised on doing their jobs of healing.
So if you are trying to and guess what healers were complaining about just on this forum on day 1, or even week one you gotta be paying more attention bud.

[Lodi]

I'm still convinced you can make a boring or unfun class and the community will still flock to it if the Damage numbers are just right.

AST would like to know your location.