How do we feel about tank damage right now?

[Ivellior]

If they do that, then there is practically no reason to play a dps class. You can just take a tank that does comparable damage and has 10 times more survivability instead of a damage dealer.
If that is the case they might as well remove tanks all together and make them all dps. Just like GW2. However people playing this game play for the trinity, otherwise they would be playing GW2 or a similar game.

[ReiMakoto]

If they do that, then there is practically no reason to play a dps class. You can just take a tank that does comparable damage and has 10 times more survivability instead of a damage dealer.
If that is the case they might as well remove tanks all together and make them all dps. Just like GW2. However people playing this game play for the trinity, otherwise they would be playing GW2 or a similar game.

This would not be the case if dps checks were made accordingly. the old standard was tanks did 2/3rds of the dps of a dps class but that is steadily dropping. A dps check tuned around the fact that tanks are dealing that amount of damage would mean dps would still be needed, but tanks would also feel more valuable than they currently are. Tanks would keep thier current engagement with tank mechanics, just with more weight behind what theyre doing. We're approaching a state where we're getting a no or little reason to play a tank class outside of binary checks. Its been theorycrafted that e5s and e6s are solotankable.

Even when tanks were their strongest with HW WAR, where 8 tanks could literally clear every raid tier, people still played dps because that is what the game is designed around, designing around tanks doing a higher percentage of damage would not harm dps if its tuned properly. If you had a hypothetical case where a tank does 75% of the damage of the average dps, taking all tanks instead of dps will essentially net you one less dps worth of damage, if tuned right that would be like playing normal except with a dead dps for the entire fight, and with correctly tuned dps checks, that would make it harder not easier to clear, especially with how little healing is needed to get by anyway you arn't exactly netting the healers more damage, the best you'd get is being able to brute force some mechanics, but a lot of mechanics are just instant kill anyway or would make you lose even more overall damage if you replaced a ranged dps with a tank. Also the game has built in mitigation against this with the party diversity bonus, so losing out on that would hurt dps even more.

[Ivellior]

First of all, doing damage is against the core and class identity for tanks. You are playing a dps to do damage, a healer to heal and a tank to tank. That is the reason people play tanks and it should be the primary reason to play a tank. If E5S and E6S are able to be solotanks then that is just fine as well. I see no problem with that. People that want to do damage can just roll dps. Finally if SE wants both tanks to perform their intended role (ie tank) they can just add more adds, 2 bosses in the encounter, or force tank swapping with debuffs like they did in the past.

Besides, if we follow what you say and increase tank damage (without decreasing dps damage) and then increase the dps checks (to offset), that will just make savage raids harder and we will end up with Alexander all over again where it almost killed raiding because people couldn't clear A3S. To make it work properly, the devs to do a ton of extra work to properly adjust the dps checks. And all that would be just in order to get tanks do more damage and feel like dps, which they shouldn't be in the first place. It's a different type in the trinity. As for people that want to have more fun because they want to see bigger number they can just play a dps class.

The current state of tanking is what it is because they simplified tanks. Tanks stances are gone, the defensive kit is pretty much the same across all tanks, etc. And they did that in the name of "balance". After HW tanks have just been getting simpler and simpler. As a result tanks are now boring and noone likes them. Giving them more damage will not solve this fundamental problem. If they wanted to make tanks more accessible they could just make one or two simple (like PLD used to be).

[Shurrikhan]

First of all, doing damage is against the core and class identity for tanks.

And yet tanks have always dealt damage and threat/enmity/hit-me-instead-points have with few skills' exceptions always been based on damage dealt on any tank in any game.

[Ivellior]

And yet tanks have always dealt damage and threat/enmity/hit-me-instead-points have with few skills' exceptions always been based on damage dealt on any tank in any game.

Following this logic we could say that since enmity is no longer based on the damage dealt anymore (it's a toggle now) there is no reason to do high damage anymore.
In games with trinity enmity was produced from damage as well as skills that only give enmity. For example in WOW classic Warriors got most of their enmity from taunt that did no damage. And in all games with trinity tanks always dealt a lot less damage than dps.

[Shurrikhan]

Following this logic we could say that since enmity is no longer based on the damage dealt anymore (it's a toggle now) there is no reason to do high damage anymore.
In games with trinity enmity was produced from damage as well as skills that only give enmity. For example in WOW classic Warriors got most of their enmity from taunt that did no damage. And in all games with trinity tanks always dealt a lot less damage than dps.

It's a toggle between exactly one's damage and 10x one's damage. Both are based on damage.

Making enmity a non-mechanic, moreover, does not make damage meaningless.

Also, Taunt has always had too long a cooldown and far too little threat generation to be the main source of a Warrior's threat. It's effectively Provoke, but without the massive bonus that was added in ShB.
Sunder Armor, WoW Warrior's old high-flat-threat spammable skill, on the other hand, still generated rDPS through more than just misdirecting enemies -- by steadily removing enemy physical mitigation. Note, though, that it too would eventually be replaced by Heroic Strike as a Rage spender once a sufficient threat margin was in place, and was ultimately replaced entirely by a fairly high damage variant, Devastate, not long later.

[Kalise]

First of all, doing damage is against the core and class identity for tanks.

Then someone should tell SE.

Since, currently designed Tanks have little to them other than DPS and occasionally press a defensive CD for Tankbusters.

- Enmity is no longer a thing.

- Tank LB's continue to be nigh worthless.

- Tanks don't have to focus on active mitigation because all their skills are mongo smash with a smidge of self sustain tacked onto the 123 combo (Sans PLD whom instead passively blocks damage)

- The "Tank" stat continues to be worthless because it offers less damage than literally every other stat and damage is all that matters from gear.

Literally, XIV's Tanks get the "Blue DPS" meme title for a reason. That reason is they're essentially just less interesting DPS jobs, whom occasionally use defensive CD's. The entire focus of playing a Tank is still just "Maximize muh DEEPS!". Gear for max damage, play around popping offensive CD's in burst windows and maintain high uptime on slapping the boss.

If they want Tanks to actually be Tanks, then they need to give Tanks something Tank related to do in combat (With a meaningful reward, not just "Oh, my healer spent 1 less GCD on a heal so could fire off another Broil!"). As opposed to keeping them as DPS jobs that get continual damage nerfs and impedements.

Either that, or if they continue to make Tanking and Healing requirements so minimal, just go the whole hog and delete the Tank and Healer roles and just give everyone Rampart, Assize, Swiftcast and Raise and tune every job as a DPS who can pop a CD when the boss does a thing.

[Ivellior]

Then someone should tell SE.

Since, currently designed Tanks have little to them other than DPS and occasionally press a defensive CD for Tankbusters.

- Enmity is no longer a thing.

- Tank LB's continue to be nigh worthless.

- Tanks don't have to focus on active mitigation because all their skills are mongo smash with a smidge of self sustain tacked onto the 123 combo (Sans PLD whom instead passively blocks damage)

- The "Tank" stat continues to be worthless because it offers less damage than literally every other stat and damage is all that matters from gear.

Literally, XIV's Tanks get the "Blue DPS" meme title for a reason. That reason is they're essentially just less interesting DPS jobs, whom occasionally use defensive CD's. The entire focus of playing a Tank is still just "Maximize muh DEEPS!". Gear for max damage, play around popping offensive CD's in burst windows and maintain high uptime on slapping the boss.

If they want Tanks to actually be Tanks, then they need to give Tanks something Tank related to do in combat (With a meaningful reward, not just "Oh, my healer spent 1 less GCD on a heal so could fire off another Broil!"). As opposed to keeping them as DPS jobs that get continual damage nerfs and impedements.

Either that, or if they continue to make Tanking and Healing requirements so minimal, just go the whole hog and delete the Tank and Healer roles and just give everyone Rampart, Assize, Swiftcast and Raise and tune every job as a DPS who can pop a CD when the boss does a thing.

That I agree with. They should make tanks feel more tanks again. But asking for more damage is just making the existing problem worse, it doesn't solve any of the underlying core issues with tanks.

[ReiMakoto]

That I agree with. They should make tanks feel more tanks again. But asking for more damage is just making the existing problem worse, it doesn't solve any of the underlying core issues with tanks.

Make tanks feel more like tanks again, qualify this. Tanks in this game have always been about maximising damage outside of like early ARR.

[Shurrikhan]

Make tanks feel more like tanks again, qualify this. Tanks in this game have always been about maximising damage outside of like early ARR.

Even early ARR expected tanks to be able to put out their full damage. Not that there was much of any way to fail that back then. And yet they still dealt a higher percentage of a DPS's dps, iirc.