How do we feel about tank damage right now?

[Lyth]

No. You can be goalie. Except that the shots on net are completely predictable and happen at fixed timestamps.

[Hierro]

No. You can be goalie.

As long as I get to be SCOTT. STERLING.

[Lyth]

It's about what value you, as a player, bring to the team to change the outcome of the fight.

If the reward of tanking is that you passively take less damage than other players and can press a button once every few minutes to mitigate a tankbuster, then you can stick anyone in that role, including an AI. What's the benefit of being good?

[Kabooa]

It's about what value you, as a player, bring to the team to change the outcome of the fight.

If the reward of tanking is that you passively take less damage than other players and can press a button once every few minutes to mitigate a tankbuster, then you can stick anyone in that role, including an AI. What's the benefit of being good?

You can't value success without the ability to fail, and guess what a flat potency boost doesn't do?

It doesn't reward you for "being good".

[Lyth]

You mean a relative potency boost. A flat potency boost is irrelevant if you boost everyone by the same amount. And it does. Change the weighting, change the impact the player has. At the very least, it means that having a tank with good uptime is somewhat important to clearing.

Granted, it is unfortunate that the primary way that we can impact fight outcome at the moment across roles is through dps. But that's why it's not the only thing that needs to change.

[Kabooa]

You mean a relative potency boost. A flat potency boost is irrelevant if you boost everyone by the same amount. And it does. Change the weighting, change the impact the player has. At the very least, it means that having a tank with good uptime is somewhat important to clearing.

Granted, it is unfortunate that the primary way that we can impact fight outcome at the moment across roles is through dps. But that's why it's not the only thing that needs to change.

A flat potency boost as in "Every GCD gains 30 potency", not "Everyone gains 30 potency."

It doesn't. Tanks only gaining a potency boost just changes the tuning down the line. This is why you rarely see potency changes between the start of the tier and the start of the catch up patch.

If you're expected to hit 100, and maximum potential is 130, then getting a 10% boost means you're expected to 110, and maximum potential is 143.

If nothing else changed, then this is your new baseline. 110 is your new 100, and 143 is your new 130. Wherever you landed before, you're going to land in the same spot after.

And Neo-Shiva would have 73.69m health.

[Lyth]

You're either not getting it, or deliberately obfuscating to protect your status quo. The actual numbers are irrelevant without a context to interpret them with.

When your latest and greatest Fellest Cleave is doing half the damage of the weakest dps doing a pirouette next to you, that relative difference is what you're going to base your interpretations of what 'strong' is. The devs want to sell tanking with these flashy appearing 'big damage' moves, but relegate you to afk punching-bag duty when you enter raid content. The balance has shifted way too far the other way.

[Kabooa]

You're either not getting it, or deliberately obfuscating to protect your status quo. The actual numbers are irrelevant without a context to interpret them with.

When your latest and greatest Fellest Cleave is doing half the damage of the weakest dps doing a pirouette next to you, that relative difference is what you're going to base your interpretations of what 'strong' is. The devs want to sell tanking with these flashy appearing 'big damage' moves, but relegate you to afk punching-bag duty when you enter raid content. The balance has shifted way too far the other way.

All tuning for savage is based around the combined damage contribution of an assumed average party at a certain iLevel. 2 tanks, 2 healers, and some assortment of 4 dps (Some would argue 2 melee, 1 caster, 1 ranged). I can't tell you what that ilvl is, we can only extrapolate from what they say and see if it matches up.

Increasing tank damage just means further content is tuned with this new standing in mind. There is certainly a thresh hold where it's too low, but there is also a thresh hold where it's too high.

We sit on the higher end of that in-between point.

Tanks are not weak.

[Lyth]

I'm yet to mention a number.

Again, it doesn't matter if you raise tank damage output, or you lower dps damage output, so long as the relative contributions of tanks increases in relation to dps players. It's your percentage contribution that determines the weighting of your actions. The lower the relative weighting, the less influence you have over the fight outcome. So in a world where you do significantly more damage than a tank, it means that you become much more important to the team's success. That may be convenient for you, but it doesn't suit us, black mage.

There is a balancing point at which both roles have something to contribute and be valued for.

[Kabooa]

There is a balancing point at which both roles have something to contribute and be valued for.

You mean like where we sit right now?

How about you start mentioning some numbers and sources here - You know, so we aren't obfuscating things. Specifically - Give me your desired points. How much you want, show me where in the game history you want to reference that from and the gamestate you want it to represent.