How do we feel about tank damage right now?

[Kabooa]

Casters don't have auto attacks. Their weapons have about 30% more "Damage" on their stat.

A basic damage formula looks like

Potency x Weapon Damage.

[Windwalker]

The only thing tanks need to focus on is surviving and keeping the bosses faced away from the party. Tanking have never been about doing damage, thats the dps job.

[whiskeybravo]

The only thing tanks need to focus on is surviving and keeping the bosses faced away from the party. Tanking have never been about doing damage, thats the dps job.

The problem with this argument is that "surviving" is more or less pressing one or 2 buttons every couple of minutes. There's no real way to survive better beyond using appropriate CDs at the time required. Once you have that figured out all that's really left is optimizing damage, since tanks in this game are, in fact, designed to be more than mere meat shields or threat bots.

[BarretOblivion]

The only thing tanks need to focus on is surviving and keeping the bosses faced away from the party. Tanking have never been about doing damage, thats the dps job.

You know how many tanks would stop playing that role than regardless about rewards for being a tank to keep populations of them healthy? Like we would lose at least 85% if not more of tanks with that kind of attitude.
How about we make DPS have only two buttons to do their jobs with then?
>_>
Edit: Forgot to mention how insufferable playing as a tank would be just trying to do MSQ too.

[Deceptus]

You know how many tanks would stop playing that role than regardless about rewards for being a tank to keep populations of them healthy? Like we would lose at least 85% if not more of tanks with that kind of attitude.
How about we make DPS have only two buttons to do their jobs with then?
>_>
Edit: Forgot to mention how insufferable playing as a tank would be just trying to do MSQ too.

Welcome to the current life of healers where we have 1 main attack and one 30s dot.

[WhyAmIHere]

The only thing tanks need to focus on is surviving and keeping the bosses faced away from the party. Tanking have never been about doing damage, thats the dps job.

Tanks need to focus on surviving, hmm?
sounds more like "healers need to focus of keeping tanks (and everyone else and themselves) alive.
or in other words you have no idea what you're talking about.

[MerlinCross]

The problem with this argument is that "surviving" is more or less pressing one or 2 buttons every couple of minutes. There's no real way to survive better beyond using appropriate CDs at the time required. Once you have that figured out all that's really left is optimizing damage, since tanks in this game are, in fact, designed to be more than mere meat shields or threat bots.

Then ask them to change it but DPS tanks won't ask for that. Or if they do get it, it won't matter. There's no amount of mechanics that can be put into place that won't be solved. More hard hits and tank busters; oh here's the new CD rotation and Healers do it this way, make sure your DPS is good. Movement gets solved to move the boss as little as possible to keep up times(Or reduced in scope cause the Melee DPS start complaining as well). The moment the fight is solved it's back to "Well tanks need more damage." There's going to be no pleasing you people so just ax the classes already.

You know how many tanks would stop playing that role than regardless about rewards for being a tank to keep populations of them healthy? Like we would lose at least 85% if not more of tanks with that kind of attitude.
How about we make DPS have only two buttons to do their jobs with then?
>_>
Edit: Forgot to mention how insufferable playing as a tank would be just trying to do MSQ too.

Having lived through the Heavensward "DPS WAR" meta; yeah sure I'll take it. About half the tank population back then were just glorified DPS, or DPS that couldn't actually hack it as DPS and wanted an easy job in Tanks. Regardless of the different responsibilities that fell on them. "Oh but that content doesn't matter" yeah bite me, give me back my time wasted on tanks thinking they were Damage dealers and ate busters/attacks they should have and then we'll say it 'doesn't matter'. I nearly hung up healing during that.

Also do you know how many raiders would probably love to have a 2 button DPS job? "It's rotation is so easy, it's able to keep up with MNK and BLK or at least be in the ball park. We don't need to worry about replacing DNC or BRD. It's a great class...., and it's melee, skip." Yeah, no I think a 2 button DPS would be very welcome in the raid community. Fun? What's that, we need numbers cause that's all that matters.

Tanks need to focus on surviving, hmm?
sounds more like "healers need to focus of keeping tanks (and everyone else and themselves) alive.
or in other words you have no idea what you're talking about.

Tanks should focus on using their CDs to lessen damage and positioning the boss.

Problem is both of those are 'solved' and now people just thirst for damage and blame healers.

[Shurrikhan]

Then ask them to change it but DPS tanks won't ask for that. Or if they do get it, it won't matter. There's no amount of mechanics that can be put into place that won't be solved. More hard hits and tank busters; oh here's the new CD rotation and Healers do it this way, make sure your DPS is good. Movement gets solved to move the boss as little as possible to keep up times(Or reduced in scope cause the Melee DPS start complaining as well). The moment the fight is solved it's back to "Well tanks need more damage." There's going to be no pleasing you people so just ax the classes already.

Gameplay being currently underwhelming = any and all iterations of gameplay will be underwhelming = just remove all jobs?

You do realize how obtuse you're being?

That all gameplay is simply a process of optimization, after which you have nothing left to improve upon, does not make all gameplay the same. The height of that hurdle matters, too, not just people will eventually manage it.

[MerlinCross]

Gameplay being currently underwhelming = any and all iterations of gameplay will be underwhelming = just remove all jobs?

You do realize how obtuse you're being?

That all gameplay is simply a process of optimization, after which you have nothing left to improve upon, does not make all gameplay the same. The height of that hurdle matters, too, not just people will eventually manage it.

The only optimization that people seem to care about is damage. Been told that again and again in this very thread. And who cares about “content that doesn’t matter” the game is “balanced” around raids and raiders right? Now this is in part due to how the game is designed, damage being the only viable that has any meaning(what you can’t follow a guide that calls out CDs for you and stay calm?)but I’m convinced there’s no amount of mechanics(Fight, job, or role)that won’t lead to people going “more damage?” without going off the deep end into annoyance or just insane demands on said tanks. And I’d still give people a few months before figuring it out anyway.

People want more damage across the board. Tanks don’t do enough, healers will never do enough from what I see people saying every expansion(with some exceptions), and even DPS cry that they aren’t MNK or BLM.

Easiest way to fix this demand is to ax the roles, make them all damage focus with little changes between them. Myself, I would find that more than likely boring but hey, the game isn’t balanced around me so how dare I question what is fun.

Can’t complain about tank damage if there’s no tanks. Kill roles and end it. But then We’d just get people complaining that their favorite job is still lowest on the chart. Ah well, can’t please everybody.

[Nedkel]

The only thing tanks need to focus on is surviving and keeping the bosses faced away from the party. Tanking have never been about doing damage, thats the dps job.

Ok, but then give a tank self healing skills allowing them to survive without healer. Oh wait, healer lost his job now.

Also do you know how many raiders would probably love to have a 2 button DPS job? "It's rotation is so easy, it's able to keep up with MNK and BLK or at least be in the ball park. We don't need to worry about replacing DNC or BRD. It's a great class...., and it's melee, skip." Yeah, no I think a 2 button DPS would be very welcome in the raid community. Fun? What's that, we need numbers cause that's all that matters.

SE did this with healers, were they happy?