Reimbursement for Lost Tomes due to Wrongful use of Kick

[HyoMinPark]

2/3 of the boss isn't part of the completion bonus.

Expert roulette is 90 phanta total. 40 dungeon + 50 completion bonus.

When you slay a boss you see yourself receiving goetia and phantasmagoria. That reward should be yours, and kept. But it is not. A kick deletes all that progress -in addition- to denying you completion bonus as mentioned a few times in this thread.

Even though the game says you earned them, it doesn’t give them to you until you complete the duty. This is likely in place to keep people from making premades to repeatedly farm the first boss > drop instance > repeat.

[WalxAtNite]

No... if you have 100 players and 99 of them never get kicked out of dungeons, but ONE seems to be getting kicked repeatedly, anyone in their right mind would venture to guess that the one player out of 100 getting kicked is doing something deserving of being kicked.

Now, if you had evidence that you were kicked for no other reason than simply existing? I may take your side on this. If there's any False Cause Fallacy, it's your odd belief that you deserve a completion bonus for something you didn't complete, and rather than taking the time to examine your own actions - i.e., what caused you to be removed from the party and lose out on that completion bonus - you would rather attempt to convince the readers of this forum that you have done nothing at all to warrant the kick. Therefore, you were *wrongfully* kicked. Therefore, you deserve a reward for a) not completing the objective that provides that bonus to players and b) somehow managing to get yourself removed from a party not just once, but repeatedly.

Dude, I can't walk up to my neighbor's dog, kick it in the face multiple times, then sue my neighbor when the dog bites me demanding compensation. That is not how this works, but to everyone looking in on this, that's what you're trying to do.

You did not get kicked for no reason. You did not get kicked because people "don't like you." You got kicked because you did or said something, even if you don't want to tell us what that something is.

Get back in the queue. Complete the objective. Don't harass players or do whatever it is you keep doing to get yourself kicked. Get the completion bonus. Win.

[Yukumazi]

OP - "I was wrongfully kicked, i demand compensation"
Everyone - "Ok. . .Why were you kicked or wrongfully kicked"
OP - "They kicked me wrongfully, i demand tomes for the effort i put in"
Everyone - "can you tell us what happened before you were kicked"
OP - "Give me tomes, WoW GMs are much better than ours"
Everyone - "Do you even remember what happened"
OP - "Crystal DC is a joke, why am I on here"

Do you see the never ending cycle here? people are asking you for sources so they can get a feel of what happened and make a judgement but here you are complaining about being kicked and rules but still don't have any sources to back up these claims.
(And yes you can post logs of chat if you blacked them out as we will never know the players who did it)

Other than that. this topic is pointless
-no you're not going to get compensated. you were never abused
-if you don't like Crystal DC, then leave. enough with lowblow callouts on the server you are in (if you are this way, then people in other DCs wouldn't even want to associate with ya)
-stop being a special snowflake. nobody deserves special treatment more than this game already gives people.

[colorfulcheshire]

It's happened in the last year and alot of times I think its attributed to the updated ToS that's been used as a scapegoat for these awful people to try to rationalize any disruptive behavior. I noticed an almost immediate rise in hostility of players with the rolling of data centers as well (Crystal), ex. with 1 other friend premades we've had to get rid of so many tanks that will literally sit down in a dungeon if you poke them to keep up their AoE (almost always Aurum Vale).

Lower brackets we've had to deal with DPS stopping from being prodded they need to use AoE's, and explain that it's wonderful this xpac got rid of TP.

Trolls are at an all new high, I didn't have to deal with any of this last 2 years of ARR or HW. It's so rampant now it's becoming problem for my friends and I either together or as individuals to keep up completion.

Also going to heavily edit this post now seeing as the main point isn't being argue, it's being heavily derailed with strawmen and assumptive ad hominem attacking a personal experience shared instead of mostly criticizing the suggestion and folks can see the example in quotes.

Thank you for your input.

You literally just pulled a logic bro to duck out of the main factor here. Yes we have tried to address the silly demand for compensation but we're also trying to offer advice on how to not get kicked.

You're using the scapegoat new tos bc again I still have had no problems. New TOS literally is to just be respectful. No one owes you half an hour of listening to your meta. It's a game. Read the room and stop talking if it's an agree to disagree situation otherwise, YOU'RE CREATING THE HOSTILE ENVIRONMENT and you're making others uncomfortable.

I'm not trying to attack your character but literally everyone is either asking "okay but WHAT" did you do (bc why would we agree to compensate people who got kicked for afk when they could have been kicked with a penalty for harassment) OR were just suggesting if it's THIS big of a problem, that based on the number of people who don't have this problem, that perhaps you're the odd man out who needs to reavulate your behavior to better integrate into a social gaming experience with other real human beings. If it's just you and your friends, you guys probs aren't being respectful and should learn how to socialize instead of shoving your opinion and insistence on being right into everyone's faces both in game and on forums.

I don't think you've brought this here in good faith. I honestly personally believe you're upset that your actions continue to have consequences

[colorfulcheshire]

Please attack the suggestion. The argument, not the person.

The suggestion is not good because it completely negates the idea of negative actions having consequences. There. If someone's getting kicked this often, I'd be upset if they were getting compensated, nay, rewarded for being insufferable to be around in a video game where you aren't required to talk to your party if you don't feel like it.

[ForteNightshade]

If you are getting kicked to the point of regularity, the problem is very likely you. All we can really gather from all this is you disagreed with the healer enough they wanted you out. Did try to pull too much, not enough, not CDs or just make comments they didn't like? You did something because people typically only kick at the last boss when they're pissed. Regardless, there's nothing that can be done about it even if you were totally innocent. Your suggestion doesn't work since it defeats the entire point of vote kicks. It sucks but it's not like dungeons are long or challenging. Just run it again and say nothing but "hi".

[MeowingKittens]

It's happened in the last year and alot of times I think its attributed to the updated ToS that's been used as a scapegoat for these awful people to try to rationalize any disruptive behavior. I noticed an almost immediate rise in hostility of players with the rolling of data centers as well (Crystal), ex. with 1 other friend premades we've had to get rid of so many tanks that will literally sit down in a dungeon if you poke them to keep up their AoE (almost always Aurum Vale).

Lower brackets we've had to deal with DPS stopping from being prodded they need to use AoE's, and explain that it's wonderful this xpac got rid of TP.

Trolls are at an all new high, I didn't have to deal with any of this last 2 years of ARR or HW. It's so rampant now it's becoming problem for my friends and I either together or as individuals to keep up completion.

I'm gonna bite on this one. I'm at nearly 8,000 duties completed on my main, and have the 2,000 mentor roulette mount without duty fishing. I've done a LOT of content and a wide variety of it. I've dealt with truckloads of players of varying skill levels.

VERY few people in this game are legitimately hostile. You need to learn how to pick your battles. A dungeon taking a few minutes longer isn't a good reason to poke at them. If a tank made a choice to "literally sit down in a dungeon", that means someone in the party did or said SOMETHING to make them put their foot down. NO ONE is interesting in prolonging a dungeon unless someone is causing a problem.

Why is there a need to "poke them to keep up their AoE", especially in a low level dungeon? If aggro is an issue, that means that's a tank stance problem, and you ask them to please turn it on. If that's not the problem, you paying too much attention (in a non-expert dungeon) to what the tank is doing and "poking" them about it, might be the real issue. I'm all for helping people improve, as well as dungeon efficiency, but there is a time and a place for it. There is content where you should expect a certain level of competence, and places where you just need to let it go.

Unless something is going terribly wrong, people don't like unsolicited advice, even if it is well intentioned. No one wants to be called out on the spot and embarrassed like that. No one wants to be micromanaged without consent in a dungeon. It's a game, they are your teammates, and you're not their manager.



All that aside, the reason this suggestion won't work is because it will open the for for partial pre-mades to kick someone at the last minute to bring in their friend to get reward bonuses for no effort, while the person who was kicked also gets equally compensated. It won't solve the any issue regarding "why votekicks occur in the first place", but will encourage a small percentage of people to actively abuse it. The feature is there to remove people who are being an ACTIVE detriment; not those who are being a mild annoyance.

[Arcian]

You keep talking about wrongful kicks.
I'm beginning to think that your definition of a wrongful kick is just one that's aimed at you.

[Iscah]

My suggestion is that after a thorough investigation of a wrongful use of vote-kick in a dungeon, if the player accosted is found in the right they should receive a full reimbursement of the tomes and currency (additionally adventurer in need, if applicable) denied.

GM decides fault, and if in favor of the victim, they should receive reimbursement.

Putting aside your individual situation - if this is a common issue, then think about what this means for the GMs if this was a rule for the entire playerbase. Every time someone thinks they've been wrongly kicked, the GM has to make a "thorough investigation" and judge whether you earned your tomes or not.

It sounds like a lot of additional work and judgement they don't need to be doing, and they'd still be saying no to people who were "rightfully kicked".

And then there's the timeframe of it.

You played a dungeon, you got kicked, you file a compensation report. Now what? Do you wait for the GM to get back to you, and potentially miss your daily reward altogether if they say no? Run the roulette again, get your tomes through the automatic daily reward, then the GM awards you 90% of a second reward? Or did you just waste their time spent investigating whether to give you the reward, because they can't give you a second one?

[RokkuEkkusu]

I don't know the full story of what's going on here, but I have one suggestion if such vote kicks are a concern:

Don't roll on items you don't need. Vote kicks cannot be commenced when rolling on items.