Monk rework/dmg nerf idea.

[Shurrikhan]

Personally, I don't feel that MNK really need a damage nerf all things considered. People say that its over performing because Brotherhood/Mantra is this god tier utility and that ignoring positionals is somehow busted but considering how little those skills actually offer and that the other melee DPS don't even have half the positionals of MNK, I just don't see that as justification for a nerf.

To be fair, those with, say, at most a third of the positionals Monk has also often have at least three times the potency penalty for each positional missed, be it directly or through gauge generation.

Brotherhood, likewise, might not produce a Trick Attack's worth of damage, nor as frequently, but it's far from negligible, either.

[Vendalwind]

The only time Monk appealed to me was when Tornado Kick was made possible as a rotation, so they definitely aren't speaking for me.

I understand not all players get the same levers pulled in their head for specific actions, but rapidly swapping "Fist" "Stance" "Options that enable / disable features of the job" absolutely hits all the right levers for me.

Just that one trait in a class/job means it requires more precision, more attention, and ultimately more engagement, and pulling it off successfully -feels amazing-. There's notable and instant feedback when you do it right and do it wrong, and FF14 needs so much more of that.

Yep those are my "levers" too.

In response to silver strider.
More true north effect is opposite of the direction i would like to see the class go. So those changes to sss and tk would not work for me personally

[Sareal]

More true north effect is opposite of the direction i would like to see the class go. So those changes to sss and tk would not work for me personally

I must admit that True North effects are one of the reasons I jumped ship. I find it puzzling that SE would continue to give tools to ignore positionals 24/7 instead of just removing positionals altogether and giving monks other tools. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they should remove positionals, but why do we even have them if we can just flat out ignore them? Monk has always been about doing positionals and now suddenly they turn the table and want you to play around ignoring those positionals? Seems weird to me, then again I'm not a monk main in ShB so it might not be as bad as it would want me to believe.

[WrenElessedil]

1) Change the CD of Riddle of Fire/Brotherhood to 120 seconds. Extend the duration of Brotherhood to 20 seconds and have it apply to all damage.
2) Remove the GL requirement of Tornado Kick and instead have it be something that can only be used every 3rd refreshing of GL (This also applies to refreshing caused by Riddle of Earth and Anatman) with a 30 second CD.
3) Change Anatman to only grant GL stacks every 3 seconds, regardless of server ticks and lower the CD to 30 seconds.
4) Change SSS into an oGCD that can only be used after a successful Tornado Kick and grant 10 seconds of True North upon its execution with no slow effect.
5) Either remove the True North effect from Riddle of Earth entirely, or reduce it down to 10 seconds at the most.
6) Remove the Fist Stances and untie GL4 from them. They offer nothing to the class and are fluff that can be removed entirely. They can also make the fist stances into just weaker versions of Riddles that change to riddles later on, with Fist of Wind becoming a trait to increase movement speed and Riddle of Wind being the trait to unlock the 2nd Should Tackle.
7) Have Brotherhood naturally generate 1 Chakra every 3 seconds for its duration while also still maintaining the extra chance to earn them from allies.
8) Change Deep Meditation into a 100% guaranteed chakra on crit.

With Brotherhood/Riddle of Fire being on a longer CD you lower MNK's DPS a bit but with the changes to Tornado Kick/SSS as well as the adjustments to Brotherhood and Deep Meditation, you are able to soften the overall nerfs to be less detrimental to MNK as a whole by smoothing out its toolkit in a way that makes it actually enjoyable to utilize your full kit. Tornado kick is no longer a dead skill but something that helps you by unlocking SSS to get another True North effect and with skills like Anatman and Riddle of Earth providing a faster build up towards TK, you can keep that flow going.

Personally, I don't feel that MNK really need a damage nerf all things considered. People say that its over performing because Brotherhood/Mantra is this god tier utility and that ignoring positionals is somehow busted but considering how little those skills actually offer and that the other melee DPS don't even have half the positionals of MNK, I just don't see that as justification for a nerf.

I can fully get on board with this rework. Probably the best I've seen so far.

[Ramura_Sono]

To be fair, those with, say, at most a third of the positionals Monk has also often have at least three times the potency penalty for each positional missed, be it directly or through gauge generation.

Only if you decide to conveniently forget guaranteed crit leaden fist bootshine exists. which is worth something like 200 potency (which after monks multipliers is around 310) when the increased chance of chakra is taken into account. No single missed positional save TA is a bigger loss.

Also stance dancing to enable/disable features would add nothing unless you gave everyhting an additonal feature dependent on what fist you're in. We've already had a taste of this with the TK rotation in SB. Was it fun? You betcha. But there was never any real reason any of the features we got to help enable such a rotation needed to be locked behind fist stances.

1) Change the CD of Riddle of Fire/Brotherhood to 120 seconds. Extend the duration of Brotherhood to 20 seconds and have it apply to all damage.
2) Remove the GL requirement of Tornado Kick and instead have it be something that can only be used every 3rd refreshing of GL (This also applies to refreshing caused by Riddle of Earth and Anatman) with a 30 second CD.
3) Change Anatman to only grant GL stacks every 3 seconds, regardless of server ticks and lower the CD to 30 seconds.
4) Change SSS into an oGCD that can only be used after a successful Tornado Kick and grant 10 seconds of True North upon its execution with no slow effect.
5) Either remove the True North effect from Riddle of Earth entirely, or reduce it down to 10 seconds at the most.
6) Remove the Fist Stances and untie GL4 from them. They offer nothing to the class and are fluff that can be removed entirely. They can also make the fist stances into just weaker versions of Riddles that change to riddles later on, with Fist of Wind becoming a trait to increase movement speed and Riddle of Wind being the trait to unlock the 2nd Should Tackle.
7) Have Brotherhood naturally generate 1 Chakra every 3 seconds for its duration while also still maintaining the extra chance to earn them from allies.
8) Change Deep Meditation into a 100% guaranteed chakra on crit.

Change RoE / SSS to grant a window where chakra generation is guaranteed or move chakra from an rng system to a more steady system of gain and I'd be all over this.

[BarretOblivion]

Goals:
1. bring damage down a bit, 2.streamline some things

Isn't MNK already the easiest melee job to do well in the game now? You got how many ways to just completely ignore positionals for how long again??? You want to dumb down the job even further?
Why bring down its damage? SE already has stated they are bringing everything else UP to it.

[Duskane]

I just wanna throw this out there
But what if Six sided star was a Ogcd and it just gave you max grease lightning

Would this make Tornado kick more usable and the opener not as reliant on server tick?

[Silver-Strider]

Only if you decide to conveniently forget guaranteed crit leaden fist bootshine exists. which is worth something like 200 potency (which after monks multipliers is around 310) when the increased chance of chakra is taken into account. No single missed positional save TA is a bigger loss.

Also stance dancing to enable/disable features would add nothing unless you literally gave everyhting an additonal feature dependent on what fist you're in. We've literally already had a taste of this with the TK rotation in SB. Was it fun? You betcha. But there was never any real reason any of the features we got to help enable such a rotation needed to be locked behind fist stances.



Change RoE / SSS to grant a window where chakra generation is guaranteed or move chakra from an rng system to a more steady system of gain and I'd be all over this.

In that case, leave RoE with the 10 second True North effect and have SSS instead grant you a 5 second buff (Let's call it Awakening to keep with the whole Meditation theme) in which all your weapon skills grant a guaranteed Chakra, regardless of crit.

[Shurrikhan]

Only if you decide to conveniently forget guaranteed crit leaden fist bootshine exists. which is worth something like 200 potency (which after monks multipliers is around 310) when the increased chance of chakra is taken into account. No single missed positional save TA is a bigger loss.

Also stance dancing to enable/disable features would add nothing unless you literally gave everyhting an additonal feature dependent on what fist you're in. We've literally already had a taste of this with the TK rotation in SB. Was it fun? You betcha. But there was never any real reason any of the features we got to help enable such a rotation needed to be locked behind fist stances.

At, say 3850 Critical Hit, the Leaden Fist Bootshine positional would be worth exactly 173.85 Monk potency, which would be worth 260.78 raw potency, 237 DRG potency, or 231 SAM potency, true. It is absurdly strong.

But the point I was replying to was the frequency of the positionals (that other jobs "don't have even half the positionals of MNK", and thus MNK deserves not to have its damage nerfed); had the complaint been the absurdity of LFB's punishment, I would have simply directed them to Trick Attack.
And it hardly seems worth saying that Monk is so positional-ridden that it needs BLM-level damage despite having Brotherhood just because every skill has one when their positionals are each worth only 20 potency, down from the 80 positional potency of DRG's combo finishers or the 64+ of any SAM finisher, and can be ignored for two-thirds of the time.

[Vendalwind]

Isn't MNK already the easiest melee job to do well in the game now? You got how many ways to just completely ignore positionals for how long again??? You want to dumb down the job even further?
Why bring down its damage? SE already has stated they are bringing everything else UP to it.

Streamline need not imply dumbing it down. In this case my rework would make the job more complex and difficult to perfectly play. The streamlining is in reference to improving the flow and usefulness of the moves in the kit. As it is mnk currently has some dead moves.

*Very late edit
On the ubject of the damage. Raising everybody up will make current content even easier than it already is. to maintain the integrity of the content (its difficulty) some numbers need to be brought down while others are brought up. A game where everyone is OP is fine when PVP, but when PvAI it is boring.