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  1. #1
    Player
    Archwizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    A café at the edge of the universe
    Posts
    1,130
    Character
    Archwizard Drake
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Duelle View Post
    I added Jolt for thematic purposes. If spells are going to proc this effect, then it makes sense for it to involve the job's "red magic".
    And thematically I understand and don't disagree. Theme, however, shouldn't overtake balance or practicality in terms of a job's mechanical design.
    If you increased the proc rate to be substantially procced by Jolt, it wouldn't mean people using Jolt less to achieve the number of procs you intend per fight, it would mean people actively attempting to use Jolt more to game it and squeeze out the maximum number of procs. Remember, much like any other proc, the proc rate of the effect off Jolt is a factor in the effective increase to the potency of Jolt -- and the proc is worth the maximum value you can get out of it, which is equal to 30/30 Mana.

    Just to give you an idea of the potency of this proc: to make it net neutral with Jolt II as-now, you'd have to remove Jolt's base Mana return completely, make EB a 10% proc chance or less, and reduce Jolt's potency by a fraction of the damage of the entire melee combo (since the first hit doesn't exist in a vacuum, being both the most expensive hurdle and weakest single swing) which I don't want to calculate right now.

    An alternative would be to tie Acceleration to it (Veraero/Verthunder cast while under the effect of Acceleration grant Enchanted Blade), though I'm not a fan of this since instead of receiving the effect through regular gameplay you're getting one from the burst phase (which can be interrupted if you get a boss that becomes untargetable) and one from an ability on a 35s cooldown.
    Especially since that would absolutely jump the gun. The only reason you wouldn't get one or more Accelerations per melee phase as now, is because the stacking of procs would mean achieving the melee phase multiple times between Accelerations. The frequency would at least mean you would effectively be permanently locked into using your melee combo at 50/50 Mana or less.
    I'm sure you'd be pleasantly satisfied but that is a grandiose increase in frequency and damage that would absolutely be offset by a damage cut, unless dealt to us a future expansion.

    ... alternately, however, you could have Manafication just give 3 stacks outright and cut out its innate mana gain entirely at the cost of just not including the proc by any other means. 3 free Moulinets or a full melee combo every 2 minutes, would make aligning your burst phase significantly easier. Probably too strong since you could effectively ignore Mana altogether when it comes up, but eh.

    In situations where you need to get away and it's off cooldown, you are definitely going to use Displacement.
    Situations which exist at a very specific intersection of CD timing and boss attack patterns, particularly if that same CD is being pressed on-cooldown with Engagement.

    If mobility is a concern, I'd suggest separating Engagement's cooldown from Displacement in exchange for reducing or removing the latter's damage component.
    Mobility isn't my concern, my concern is that would negate the entire point of having Engagement, as an alternative means to inflict damage via Displacement's CD. If they remove the damage from Displacement, the only reason for Engagement to exist is oGCD damage specifically in the melee phase, at which point they may as well add its damage into Corps-a-corps or an actual melee skill since we barely have time to use oGCDs in melee.

    At least for the way I play RDM it'd be really convenient, since I'd have 3 oGCD skills to use between Dualcasted GCDs (Fleche, Contre, Engagement)
    ... The way I play RDM I already have 4. Fleche, Contre, Acceleration and Swiftcast.

    Entirely ignoring Corps-a-corps, which would fulfill the same role as Engagement at point-blank.
    (1)
    Last edited by Archwizard; 10-04-2019 at 01:28 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Duelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    3,965
    Character
    Duelle Urelle
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Archwizard View Post
    Just to give you an idea of the potency of this proc: to make it net neutral with Jolt II as-now, you'd have to remove Jolt's base Mana return completely, make EB a 10% proc chance or less, and reduce Jolt's potency by a fraction of the damage of the entire melee combo (since the first hit doesn't exist in a vacuum, being both the most expensive hurdle and weakest single swing) which I don't want to calculate right now.
    Reducing Jolt's chances to proc this could make the procs become incidental of spell spam instead of spamming spells to get the proc. 10% sounds really low to me (especially since, as you said, the gameplay emphasizes using Jolt as little as possible), though if that's what'll take to prevent people focusing on Jolt to game the system, so be it.
    ... alternately, however, you could have Manafication just give 3 stacks outright and cut out its innate mana gain entirely at the cost of just not including the proc by any other means.
    At that point you're trading one effect for something similar instead of adding a new piece to RDM's gameplay. I would like to see something like Enchanted Blade join the other things in RDM's kit, not replace one of them.
    Mobility isn't my concern, my concern is that would negate the entire point of having Engagement, as an alternative means to inflict damage via Displacement's CD. If they remove the damage from Displacement, the only reason for Engagement to exist is oGCD damage specifically in the melee phase, at which point they may as well add its damage into Corps-a-corps or an actual melee skill since we barely have time to use oGCDs in melee.
    Most fights I've been part of involve people stacking behind the boss for one reason or another, so I've been getting a lot of use out of Engagement (much to my own surprise). En-Combo => oGCD => Verflare/Verholy => oGCD => Scorch => oGCD => Spellspam. Assuming the cooldowns align, those oGCDs are Fleche, Contre and Engagement. Throw in Acceleration on the second or third slot if available and if one of the others is on cooldown (otherwise use on Dualcast oGCDs when missing one or both "Verspell Ready" buffs).
    ... The way I play RDM I already have 4. Fleche, Contre, Acceleration and Swiftcast.
    How silly of me. Let me clarify: damaging oGCDs.
    Entirely ignoring Corps-a-corps, which would fulfill the same role as Engagement at point-blank.
    I'm not keen on that for the same reason I wasn't a fan of DRGs using Leg Sweep or BRDs using Blunt Arrow on cooldown during ARR and Heavensward: it's a waste of utility on top of teaching very poor habits to the player.
    (0)
    Last edited by Duelle; 10-04-2019 at 07:16 PM.
    * The sad thing is that FFXIV turned RDM into a turret, and people think that's what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to combine sword and magic into something more, not spend the bulk of gameplay spamming spells and jump into melee for only 3 GCDs before scurrying back to the back line like good little casters.
    * Design ideas:
    Red Mage - COMPLETE (https://tinyurl.com/y6tsbnjh), Chemist - Second Pass (https://tinyurl.com/ssuog88), Thief - First Pass (https://tinyurl.com/vdjpkoa), Rune Fencer - First Pass (https://tinyurl.com/y3fomdp2)