Suggestion for: RDM improvements

[Siete]

RDM damage is fine. It's a very very simple class to play, and accessible to new players. This has value. I would, however, like to see them with 2-3 mob debuffs, as RDMs have in other FF games. This will further differentiate them from being BLM-lite, along with the cure and rez they already have.

I find BLM easier than RDM, your point is?

[Katie_Kitty]

RDM damage is fine. It's a very very simple class to play, and accessible to new players. This has value. I would, however, like to see them with 2-3 mob debuffs, as RDMs have in other FF games. This will further differentiate them from being BLM-lite, along with the cure and rez they already have.

How much damage a job does has nothing to do with whether or not you think it's simple to play.

[alchemi80]

difficulty doesn't mean anything.

It most certainly does. Do you think classes that are more difficult to play shouldn't be rewarded in kind for optimal performance?

How much damage a job does has nothing to do with whether or not you think it's simple to play.

This isn't about what I personally think is simple. RDM is objectively much easier to play than most other classes, and possibly maybe on par with a couple of the classes Wayfinder pointed out. And it can rez and heal. It's notorious for being braindead, everywhere from these very forums, to ffxiv reddit, to FC forums, to in game chat. Are you really contesting this?

To both of you, I think raising RDM damage is fine as long as the damage is accompanied by added complexity. Do you agree to that at least?

[Zyneste]

It most certainly does. Do you think classes that are more difficult to play shouldn't be rewarded in kind for optimal performance?


This isn't about what I personally think is simple. RDM is objectively much easier to play than most other classes, and possibly maybe on par with a couple of the classes Wayfinder pointed out. And it can rez and heal. It's notorious for being braindead, everywhere from these very forums, to ffxiv reddit, to FC forums, to in game chat. Are you really contesting this?

To both of you, I think raising RDM damage is fine as long as the damage is accompanied by added complexity.

This was about 1 week into 5.08. The higher the number on the top right, the more difficult or inconsistent the player base is at performing high DPS. The lower the number the more consistent. Healers have an obviously high gap from healing. SMN/RDM would be skewed slightly from using raise GCDs, but not by much. In many ways, Monk and Dragoon are much easier than even Red Mage. They've practically baby proofed the melee.

[Kabooa]

This was about 1 week into 5.08. The higher the number on the top right, the more difficult or inconsistent the player base is at performing high DPS. The lower the number the more consistent. Healers have an obviously high gap from healing. SMN/RDM would be skewed slightly from using raise GCDs, but not by much. In many ways, Monk and Dragoon are much easier than even Red Mage. They've practically baby proofed the melee.

Upper right number seems confused.

It's less than 20 difference between Max and Min on Red mage, about the same as Dragoon, and only 1 less than Ninja.

In other words, you got differences of 19.x, 20.x, and 21.x.

No one in their right mind would say "Dragoon is only slightly easier than Ninja" or "Red mage is just as difficult as Ninja", or "Paladin is harder than all of them."

[Mhaeric]

Upper right number seems confused.

It's less than 20 difference between Max and Min on Red mage, about the same as Dragoon, and only 1 less than Ninja.

In other words, you got differences of 19.x, 20.x, and 21.x.

No one in their right mind would say "Dragoon is only slightly easier than Ninja" or "Red mage is just as difficult as Ninja", or "Paladin is harder than all of them."

To clear up what that number in the chart is: Its the percent difference of the minium value from the maximum value, rather than the raw difference between min and max. I.e. (max-min)/max. (There's 2 typos in the chart: either Monk should be 20.2 and Dancer should be 19.0 or one or both of their min/max values has the typo)

DISCLAIMER! Everything from this point on in my post is just some math stuff I did for fun rather than actually making an argument for anything. There are way too many factors to be able to represent how hard a job is with a single number.

That number in their chart is meant to represent the skill gap and how wide of a dps gap there is between different skill levels. I think a better gauge to the above calculation would be comparing the percent difference of the minimum compared to the median to the percent difference of the maximum compared to the median since that would give you the relative difficulty of reaching median level compared to the relative difficulty of reaching the maximum. Just for funsies I did just that! The numbers in a list below are just the final relative differences, but before that I've listed Monk's calculation in full to show how I arrived at them.

Monk:
(Max-Median)/Median = (99.4-88.65)/88.65 = 12.1
(Median-Minimum)/Median = (88.65-79.28)/88.65 = 10.6
Difference = 12.1 - 10.6 = 1.5
This result indicates it is harder to reach skill cap than it is to reach the median but needs to be compared to the other jobs first.

Now for the full calculations in order from "hardest" to "easiest":

Ninja 3.9
Samurai 2.6
Dancer 2.5
Black Mage 2.4
Summoner 2.0
Red Mage 2.0
Dragoon 1.7
Monk 1.5
Bard 1.3
Machinist 0.6

Edit: Adding tanks:
Gunbreaker 2.7
Dark Knight 1.9
Warrior 1.2
Paladin -0.7 (Yes, Paladins are apparently so easy that they ended up with a negative number)

[Shurrikhan]

This isn't about what I personally think is simple. RDM is objectively much easier to play than most other classes, and possibly maybe on par with a couple of the classes Wayfinder pointed out. And it can rez and heal. It's notorious for being braindead, everywhere from these very forums, to ffxiv reddit, to FC forums, to in game chat.

I mean, I'll respect your opinion on this once you at least get the job to 68 or 70, but meme-y echo chambers aren't really known as reliable sources. Else, DRG would have still been "mopping floors" all through Heavensward instead of being central to its meta comp. Once you have your own opinion from having run a couple raids on the job, at the least, then I'll know you're not just regurgitating past regurgitations. Until then it's just scarcely possible to know one way or the other. Frankly, I'd sooner trust what you personally think, or could better discuss the job from that standpoint, so long as your opinion was informed, than I'd trust the majority of reddit comments or shout chat.

[giwaman]

Delete both rdm and blu and fused them together so they can become the Magnificent VioletMage!!!

[alchemi80]

Delete both rdm and blu and fused them together so they can become the Magnificent VioletMage!!!

And thus, a new job was born!

[Jukebox12]

Delete both rdm and blu and fused them together so they can become the Magnificent VioletMage!!!

You my friend deserve a huge /hug