Concept for a Magic Melee DPS

[Archwizard]

If anyone's still interested in Spellblades in this thread, I had a dream last night that the job used its strikes to build up 100/100 of a resource that, once capped out, immediately turned into a duration-based super mode (like 15-30 sec) that the same strikes could briefly extend (albeit a losing battle, ie 2 sec per strike vs a 2.5 sec GCD). The goal being basically to minimize time out of the super-mode.

It's probably just a result of my subconscious crossing DRK's Blood Gauge with DRG's Blood of the Dragon, but I don't think that combination has actually been done by any job yet. Super Mode could easily be something like summoning an aetherial blade like Alisaie to improve the potency of attacks or open access to unique skills. Could be a unique enchantment or even something Armiger-esque.

Generic, I know, but still in the skeletal stage.

[Katie_Kitty]

Your answer is devoid of logic and you didnt answer my questions at all about what role beyond healers you would like to see added.

Outright refusing to read or even acknowledge the contents of my post does not give you the right to claim it is "devoid of logic." This is just more of the same crap we see from intellectually lazy and dishonest people like you in the real world these days. "I dont like it therefore it doesn't exist." Sorry but it doesn't work that way.

[PatronasCharm]

If anyone's still interested in Spellblades in this thread, I had a dream last night that the job used its strikes to build up 100/100 of a resource that, once capped out, immediately turned into a duration-based super mode (like 15-30 sec) that the same strikes could briefly extend (albeit a losing battle, ie 2 sec per strike vs a 2.5 sec GCD). The goal being basically to minimize time out of the super-mode.

It's probably just a result of my subconscious crossing DRK's Blood Gauge with DRG's Blood of the Dragon, but I don't think that combination has actually been done by any job yet. Super Mode could easily be something like summoning an aetherial blade like Alisaie to improve the potency of attacks or open access to unique skills. Could be a unique enchantment or even something Armiger-esque.

Generic, I know, but still in the skeletal stage.

If anything, build resource by completing Elemental Rotations:

I made a few concepts, and I may rewrite my existing Mystic Knight and make it into a "Magical Melee DPS" with a big great hammer lol.

So, I'd say have 4 rotations.

Elemental Weakness Rotations build up Charges: Opener WS >> Flametongue >> Galestrike [1 Astral charge]

Opener WS >> Lightning Strike >> Stoneshear >> [1 Umbral Charge]

Player can change their rotation based on what charge it needs.

Have x3 Charges of Umbral / Astral opens up to the "Dark" and "Holy" Element.

x3 Astral = Excalibur (Holy)
x3 Umbral = some dark type WS.

If they have both 3/3 they can have a super rotation mode.

Then we can sprinkle "Charge" based Astral / Umbral only Elements that could buff party members or hinder foe.

We need a "Debuff" Job!

On a side note, I enjoyed reading your concept a few pages back, good stuff =)

[Vendalwind]

Outright refusing to read or even acknowledge the contents of my post does not give you the right to claim it is "devoid of logic." This is just more of the same crap we see from intellectually lazy and dishonest people like you in the real world these days. "I dont like it therefore it doesn't exist." Sorry but it doesn't work that way.

IM BACK EARLY WITHOUT SELF CONTROL!
Here to tell you that I did read your post, but your post didn't respond to mine... so Uh. Pot calling the kettle black?
It wasn't lazy. your post literally had dis-connected statements. I don't always go full detail rip mode cause I you know... have other things to do with my life?
The level of personal attack you go to here while only citing an assumption. Wow. Much Wow.
You are the one assuming I didn't read your post. (btw I definitely read your posts)
While still avoiding critically responding to any of the questions posed to you. Hrmmm

[Vendalwind]

Im am definitely on a crusade right now, and I realize a lot of people might not want to read what Im saying. So if you don't have astake in this please move on, or feel free to PM me (is that a thing we can do?) for a side conversation.
I'm just exceedingly tired of these essential filibuster name calling arguments that come out when other people create content. It's selfish and then they use bully tactics to attempt to shut out opinions or logic that disagree with them, while at the same time literally shutting down someone who wants to add more content to the game. And also Know my tirade may attract a Forum admin's eye. If it does so be it.

Since you asked Katie:

"The game started a certain way because it only had certain classes" and "encounters are designed to have no more than two melee" do not mean anything

it does mean something. Maybe not what i said in your opinion, but its illogical to call deliberate actions planned by the developers meaningless.

and it certainly doesn't mean melee automatically have a right to be privileged over all other jobs for all time.

Which I never said or implied. What I did say was that giving the last slot to a non melee as the standard actually puts melee into the weak spot, and over the course of the game our role (melee) has seen the least growth. My implications were based upon the CURRENT ratios. and that if melee were relegated to single slot all the time, well.... that would put us in the position of the worst ratio. 4:1 slot as compared to 3:1 for ranged and caster in the same circumstance. And my additional comments related to the fact that melee has historically seen the least growth of the roles. Since ARR we have had 1 new melee. There has been two new tanks, 1 new healer, and 3 new Ranged/casters (that began as one role) If another ranged class was added it would be fair to call the 4th slot a full toss up, but right now melee would have, by distinct ratio, the hardest time getting a raid slot if they were relegated to 1.

I literally never implied melee were privileged. Or have a right to be privileged (what does that even mean?)

Going by your own logic, since encounters are designed such that ranged can easily take a melees spot for any and all mechanics, that means melee are not needed at all and a 4-ranged comp should be standard.

First please cite to me where that is an example of my logic. your logic here is disconnected because your original assumption is false. " encounters are designed such that ranged can easily take a melees spot" because the developers didn't actually "design" with any effort this facet of the fight. it just happens naturally because ranged have full fluid mobility. If you wanted to use MY logic you could have said: 'Since black smokers is designed for 2 ranged to deal with, fights are designed with two ranged in mind.' Which I would agree with, on that aspect that particular mechanic favors for a brief moment having two physical ranged. But Casters were ORIGINALLY included in that portion of mechanics fight design, and IMO still are, as that is part of their mechanically forced downtime. Sometimes we privileged black mages by letting them avoid the mechanic while a melee sacrifices their dps, because the BLM already does better, but I truly believe mechanics such as black smokers were intended to be dealt with by casters as well as phys ranged. But that last part is conjecture not objective fact, the only factual part is that tidbit "Black Smokers was designed with range in mind"

So to sum up Find a place in my logic (honestly there probably is one somewhere i dont claim to be perfect) where I make a false assumption using the statement design and then make such an egregious statement to conclude that ALL 4 spots belong to a specific class.
Interestingly enough I know a moment when I do this after your post. When I mocked wayfinder's logic I say just that as an example of BAD argument.

Additionally, the only reason why people use two melee now is because the shitty job balance in this game made melee the most powerful classes. Take that away and suddenly your nonsense about how "the game was originally designed" just looks stupid.

But it doesn't just look stupid. You are the one assigning negative terms and words to simple statements unnecessarily. My statements are still valid and sound. They stand entirely independent from the damage classes do. EVEN if melee all did lower damage it wouldnt change the fact that A: their ratio would be the worst of the 3 dps roles if they didn't have the 4th slot, and B: mechanics are designed SPECIFICALLY with 2 melee uptime in mind.

So yeah. Your post was devoid of logic.
You make false assumptions
You tell me my words are meaningless which is literally a denial of their presence without giving them a logical thought.
You instead of providing even anecdotal analysis simply try to question my logic with a sentence that doesn't even follow the same logical pattern.
And then you say I look stupid?

Do you read the crap you write?

I stand by what I said. That post of yours was devoid of any actual logic. I tried to sugar coat that originally with a compromise noting some of what you and wayfinder said in the past made sense and was logical. But you two persisted in making incorrect judgments with name calling at my posts SO I decided to continue in a similar manner. Have I stooped to name calling you yet? I really hope you are just doing this to get a rise out of me now, and not because you actually believe you somehow have the righteous stand in this debate.

My sin now is writing epic awful text walls to fully expose what has occurred.

[Vendalwind]

If anything, build resource by completing Elemental Rotations:

I made a few concepts, and I may rewrite my existing Mystic Knight and make it into a "Magical Melee DPS" with a big great hammer lol.

Hammer would be wholly unique but I do think this game tends to stick with tried and true FF classes. so Mage hammer isn't really identifiable as one. In fact blunt weapons now that I think about it are probably the most underused in the final fantasy series.... Pretty much just viking and onion knight.

So, I'd say have 4 rotations.

Elemental Weakness Rotations build up Charges: Opener WS >> Flametongue >> Galestrike [1 Astral charge]

Opener WS >> Lightning Strike >> Stoneshear >> [1 Umbral Charge]

Player can change their rotation based on what charge it needs.

Have x3 Charges of Umbral / Astral opens up to the "Dark" and "Holy" Element.

x3 Astral = Excalibur (Holy)
x3 Umbral = some dark type WS.

If they have both 3/3 they can have a super rotation mode.

Then we can sprinkle "Charge" based Astral / Umbral only Elements that could buff party members or hinder foe.

We need a "Debuff" Job!

On a side note, I enjoyed reading your concept a few pages back, good stuff =)

I would love to see a more distinct debuff job, Devs do seem loathe to properly allow debuffs tho sadly. So the classes unique style would be management of multiple different resources that enhanced play? This actually makes me think of insect glaive from Monster Hunter series. They have to maintain "nectar" collection from three different parts of a monsters body to charge up, but can remain charged as long as they maintain the gathering of each nectar. Head boosts attack, Body boosts defense (flinching) and legs and arms boosted maneuverability. Put em all together and you are ina super strong state.

We have many jobs that maintain some meter or buff, Greased Lightning as an example. But we dont really have any that have to maintain multiple status enhancing statuses at the same time. It would be cool to have a class designed with that in mind. Each part could enhance the kit, but downtime would force you to temporarily lose a certain part of the enhancements for a little while and you would have the freedom to choose which one for different circumstances. or make it so there are many things that could be maintained but only 3 could be up at any time.

The class could start out with forced cast bars on all skills

-Wind could grant swiftcast, making it extremely valuable for mechanics, but it doesn't actually add dmg, so dropping it briefly at times in favor of pure damage would be a gain.
-Earth could grant the ability to ignore positionals (dont let the class use true north then)
-Fire could add raw damage, but not so much that missed positionals or inability to swiftcast wouldn't be more damaging in certain moments.
-Lightning could grant dots in the kit extra damage so you always want to have lightning up right before re-applying dots, but not otherwise
-Water could offer a healing boon to self thus making it a less used recovery buff
-Ice could enhance AOE damage.

-Thus max damage would come with Fire Lightning and Ice up at the same time, but this would make weaving impossible and movement impossible thus the class has to sacrifice some of its boosts to operate at times.
-Each could be accessed as a finisher to a 3 step melee combo, Enfire, enIce etc. or Icestrike etc.
-So the class would have one 2 step melee combo each with cast times and positionals (back on the first one) then have the finisher attack in 6 variants also all have positionals for full dmg (not effect, effect should always be safe to activate)

-each granting an ability that is maintained for about 9-10 GCDs.
-Thus only three could be active at a time with some mild 4 overlap.
-Then give it an alternate aoe combo that still finishes with the same Ice strike skills.
Immediately Earth and Air become extremely important, because they allow oGCD weaving and enable positional movement. but not so necessary that during certain moments they couldn't drop air to do more dmg.

This class would be highly difficult to perfect tho with this design, and would be EXTREMELY fight dependent. Every prog would see them using Earth Air Fire, but then for fights without positionals earth would drop entirely, and as fights became more memorized thunder or ice might occasionally replace fire, and with even further skill a player could at certain moments go full YOLO with fire ice and Lightning active.

I realize this is definitely a different direction than your original design but it could be interesting. It would be fun to see some class synergy too such as granting wind refreshing a Caster's swiftcast or something, but that kinda utility is really hard to balance around unfortunately. This is kinda I guess my own random vision for a spell blade now. Man. It would be hard to perfect it. But man I like the idea of utilizing all 6 elements

[Katie_Kitty]

IM BACK EARLY WITHOUT SELF CONTROL!
Here to tell you that I did read your post, but your post didn't respond to mine... so Uh. Pot calling the kettle black?
It wasn't lazy. your post literally had dis-connected statements. I don't always go full detail rip mode cause I you know... have other things to do with my life?
The level of personal attack you go to here while only citing an assumption. Wow. Much Wow.
You are the one assuming I didn't read your post. (btw I definitely read your posts)
While still avoiding critically responding to any of the questions posed to you. Hrmmm

?

I'm sorry, but I seriously question your reading comprehension abilities if you can't understand what I was saying in that post. Your logic is frankly garbage and assumes that, first, party comp is designed to be a certain way forever just because of the type of jobs the game started with, and second that the fact that encounters are designed to accomodate double melee means parties are meant to bring double melee as the standard. That makes no sense whatsoever, and as I explained in the post, you could use the same logic to suggest that parties are meant to use a standard 4-ranged comp instead because sticking a ranged in a position capable of accommodating a melee has no drawbacks whatsoever.

[Vendalwind]

?

I'm sorry, but I seriously question your reading comprehension abilities if you can't understand what I was saying in that post. Your logic is frankly garbage and assumes that, first, party comp is designed to be a certain way forever just because of the type of jobs the game started with, and second that the fact that encounters are designed to accomodate double melee means parties are meant to bring double melee as the standard. That makes no sense whatsoever, and as I explained in the post, you could use the same logic to suggest that parties are meant to use a standard 4-ranged comp instead because sticking a ranged in a position capable of accommodating a melee has no drawbacks whatsoever.

Well you win todays beligerant idiot award. Nice work! Ive been questioning your reading comprehension since this thread began! Disagreeing with someone's conclusion to analysis doesnt make their logic faulty. It makes their perspective on the historical or factual events different. You keep attacking conclusions rather than the arguments that led to them. (In any form of science, except math, to disprove a theory you show the logic or assumptions behind the theory are flawed. Doing a seperate analysis, even providing evidence for a different conclusion, that disagrees with the first theory doesnt disprove the theory. It just now prove one of the theories has some flaws, but not which one until the logic is attacked.)

However creating a counter theory is still a better form of argument than what youve done. Which essentially has amounted to just yelling louder the other pwrson is wrong without actually providing any basis for why it is wrong.

You explained nothing. Because you had no conclusive statements that needed to be

You also obviously dont understand logic as a concept because you insist on using a failed logic pattern and claiming thats how i argued.

Your "your logic" section literally uses a faulty premise. Therefore it is not a representation of my argumentative style ( MY logic), UNLESS you can show an example of where i use a faulty premise to reach a disconnected conclusion like you do.

Which ive invited you to do.

[Archwizard]

x3 Astral = Excalibur (Holy)
x3 Umbral = some dark type WS.

On the one-hand, and at the risk of being accused of trying to make a Keyblader job again, "Ragnarok" has historically been used as the name of another holy sword opposite Excalibur throughout the FF series.
On the other, "Galatine" in Arthurian legend is a blade described as "the shadow to Excalibur's light".

However, I would also note that both Excalibur and Ragnarok have been used as weapon names for Zodiac weapons for the PLD and WAR, respectively.
As an alternative though, you could consider other weaponskills available from the FF series -- for instance, Agrias and Thunder God in Orbonne Monastery provide us with "Judgement", "Cleansing Strike", "Dusk/Shadowblade", all as good options.

Hammer would be wholly unique but I do think this game tends to stick with tried and true FF classes. so Mage hammer isn't really identifiable as one. In fact blunt weapons now that I think about it are probably the most underused in the final fantasy series.... Pretty much just viking and onion knight.

I suppose there's enough broadness with the Spellblade's naming conventions that you could go with a (Spell/Rune/Mystic) Knight and avoid having to discuss why it doesn't use some kind of sword.
But then you would have to ignore half the historical skill names like "Liquid Steel" or "Thunder Blade" (as well as a few of the suffixes we've generated like "-stroke", "-shear", "-edge", etc) since they don't fit as well with a hammer, and probably just go with the generic "-strike" name for almost everything. Plus I think WAR has begun adopting hammers as alternative weapons, particularly now that Slashing/Blunt vulnerabilities are gone.

That being said, even if swords are "overdone" by some standards, it is worth pointing out that A) there are multiple styles of swordplay the world over, enough that various weapons classified as "swords" can look and be used completely differently (such as, say, the Khopesh versus the Schiavona), and B) only about half of the jobs with swords actually focus on swordplay and technique, versus just awkwardly slashing around.

Given the Middle Eastern-inspired appearance of the Spellblade in FF5, BD, and various side-entries, I would say the most appropriate weapon-type for them would be curved swords (which FF11 treated with enough distinction to make the purview purely of BLU), such as Scimitars, Falchions, Sabers, Shamshirs, Falx, Dao, Falcata, etc.

The class could start out with forced cast bars on all skills

-Wind could grant swiftcast, making it extremely valuable for mechanics, but it doesn't actually add dmg, so dropping it briefly at times in favor of pure damage would be a gain.
-Earth could grant the ability to ignore positionals (dont let the class use true north then)
-Fire could add raw damage, but not so much that missed positionals or inability to swiftcast wouldn't be more damaging in certain moments.
-Lightning could grant dots in the kit extra damage so you always want to have lightning up right before re-applying dots, but not otherwise
-Water could offer a healing boon to self thus making it a less used recovery buff
-Ice could enhance AOE damage.

Oh hey, same hat. 'Bout the only things different are that I swapped some of the effects around -- Fire to do DoTs, Lightning for AoE (chain damage), Ice for (resource) recovery and Water for raw damage (acting as an energy conductor).

I've also been toying with the alternative idea that each one of them adds an "En-" effect that only lasts for a specified number of Weaponskills (2-3, prob), and that some oGCDs would cheat the system by inheriting the En-effect but not consuming charges by virtue of not being Weaponskills. Gives you a reason to cycle between certain ones and maybe even ignore standard "comboing" mechanics used by other melee (and even RDM) in favor of cobbling together a rotation based on what En-effects you need right now.

First wave place DoT, second and third wave generate resources, fourth wave resource burst.

I realize this is definitely a different direction than your original design but it could be interesting. It would be fun to see some class synergy too such as granting wind refreshing a Caster's swiftcast or something, but that kinda utility is really hard to balance around unfortunately. This is kinda I guess my own random vision for a spell blade now.

But that's good though! Having multiple ideas on how to execute one theoretical job goes exactly towards the point, that such a job could be generated and be completely unique from any existing job.
"Might step on the toes of X you say? Okay, I'll just pick any of a hundred alternative directions." It's complete insanity to block a potentially limitless number of directions just because one competing job might get one or two more vaguely similar weaponskills an expansion.

Oh, and two more ideas:
One, Strike skills could potentially do mixed physical and magical damage, with the latter's damage being scalar to the damage dealt by the former. This not only opens avenues for multihitting attacks and effects, but would allow the magic damage to increase with any Physical damage bonuses while also allowing the Spellblade to inherit some magic bonuses as well (albeit not so many as a dedicated caster). Plus, imagine being able to critical/direct hit twice in one swing, which gives some interesting potential for burst damage.
Second -

Gap closer:
- Warp Strike: Throw an aetherial blade toward the enemy and teleport to it, dealing damage to the target; 30 sec CD
--> Improved Warp Strike: Allows the accumulation of charges on Warp Strike, allowing it to be used twice in succession
--> Link Strikes: Allows Warp Strike to be used on allied targets as well, restoring the target's HP and causing your next Warp Strike within 15 sec to critically hit

Instead of having a Link Strike heal the target, it heals you, like when Noctis Warps away from a combat situation to recover. That way while you would normally be at a disadvantage with Bloodbath, the fact that you can use it like Aetherial Manipulation and still recover most of that damage could put your personal burst healing higher than most without having to sacrifice as much.

Plus you could also add in variations on Runic for personal defense.

[WalxAtNite]

I like the beastmaster idea.

But for healer, what about an elementalist? Someone who draws on the elements for his/her heals? Maybe even the weather could change the aesthetics of the spell graphics?

Idk. I think it would be cool.