Concept for a Magic Melee DPS

[dinnertime]

creating a new class based on magical melee damage risks restricting the job to a pure caster role which is kind of the opposite.

That's like saying a Job shouldn't have its own original gimmick because another job borrows it by a small margin which sounds pretty unfair for the job that actually owns the gimmick. I don't see the "risk" here anyway, especially when DPS jobs play a lot more differently than other roles when compared to each other. They can have similar concepts and abilities lore-wise (BLM and RDM both using black magic for example) but still be unique from each other in gameplay.

[Vendalwind]

It wouldn't compete for raid spots with Red Mage but what it would do is guarantee that RDM's melee abilities will never be expanded upon. It would also be far stronger overall and steal players away from RDM who want a spellsword type class. Paired up with the curse of verraise, RDM risks becoming essentially a dead job.

That is kinda true, however at this point Im pretty much certain the melee aspect of red mage will never be further augmented much regardless.

Additionally I don't think it would kill the class. DNC hasn't killed BRD despite stealing it's role.

People will play both classes regardless, and those who lean towards caster will play RDM, while those leaning more towards melee would play the new MysticKnight.

My point being, I get what your saying, but I think it's over-dramatization to think RDM lovers will suddenly just stop playing RDM. Their two identities would still be unique, otherwise you'd have all melee players just playing the same class, and no DNC just BRD, cause well.... they share an identity right?

Any new class added will pull a few people from other classes, buts thats just distribution in general. It wouldn't kill RDM by any means. And Im in the camp of Raise needs to not be taxed unless used as well (IE huge mana cost hurts dps when used but otherwise nearly as strong as BLM, and make it only swiftcastable not dualcast)

[RoyalBeef]

It wouldn't compete for raid spots with Red Mage but what it would do is guarantee that RDM's melee abilities will never be expanded upon. It would also be far stronger overall and steal players away from RDM who want a spellsword type class. Paired up with the curse of verraise, RDM risks becoming essentially a dead job.


Could've fooled me. In prior games one of my favorite parts of RDM was being able to use it as a physical attacker as well as a caster.

Versatility is a big part of being a Red Mage, and creating a new class based on magical melee damage risks restricting the job to a pure caster role which is kind of the opposite.

You know there are roles right? RDM is classified as ranged magical role, it doesn't matter what attack animations it gets :P And if people want to play something else, let them. You seem to have a bad case of "Everyone is out to purge Red Mages" paranoia.

[Pepsi_Plunge]

Well, we have PLD, a class with a physical dmg-burst phase and a magical dmg-burst phase. And there is DRK, also using a lot of magic. With no elemental relevance in this game, both are as close to mystic knight as it gets.

[Duelle]

So recently I have played through Final Fantasy 5 and Loved the Mystic Knight class and thought about it "why do we not have a magic melee class?" (Rdm does not count imo because they are mostly ranged caster based) so i came up with a concept where they could fit it into the FF14 universe and would be a pure melee that deals magic damage.

RDM had the sword and the magic already. The problem was it being shoehorned into ranged casting because Dualcast was somehow more important than anything else to the developers (insert rant about why putting the gimmick above everything else is not good in the long run).

Job - [Mystic Knight] Role - Magic Melee DPS. Uses Mystic blades (Dual wield Straight swords) and elemental enchantment magics on weapons to to deal close range magic melee DPS to targets. Uses "Elemental Shift" To rotate between Fire/Ice/Lightning blades. With each elemental enchantment it changes the base combos to their respective element and allows the use of specific OGCD's under the effect of each enchantment well also building up the "Ultima gauge". By performing combos and rotating through each of these enchantments it will offer the use of Ultima Blade at 100% guage. Once Ultima blade is active, base combos become "Ultima aspected" and all OGCDS that were only usable in Fire/Ice/Lightning stances now have their CD timers reset and are now usable upon executing Ultima Blade for 20 sec.

In terms of weapon, I'd suggest something based on Phlegethon's weapon, which opens up when he charges it with magic. It would make for nice visuals when you have the elemental blades active.

Shifting between elements could be done a couple of ways:

1) Activating an elemental alignment gives you a resource that must be consumed by executing weaponskills. Once the resource hits zero, you can activate the next element and do the same. Every time the resource bar hits 0, you get an elemental sigil that interacts with your Ultima Blade skill. The goal would be to cycle between the 3 elements to get a fire, ice and thunder sigil then use Ultima Blade, which activates a mode not unlike Blood of the Dragon (10s duration per sigil upon activation, so 30s max). At this point, your main combo changes and you get access to some unique abilities.

2) You have 3 resource bars, one for each of the elements. Activating one and using weaponskills drains this bar, but you want to avoid hitting 0 in a specific element so you have to swap to another element before that happens. The bars regenerate over time when not active, so the gameplay would be activating element => using weaponskills => swapping to another element before the bar hits 0. Using weaponskills while under an elemental effect gives you charges that interact with your Ultima Blade skill.

Honestly speaking, I'd rather RDM's lack of melee uptime be addressed first before thinking of Mystic Knight. That said, I'm not opposed to Mystic Knight existing.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I'm in for most class ideas, really.

But if any job gets Ultima or Ultima-esque abilities before Black Mage does then I will RIOT.

[Archwizard]

It wouldn't compete for raid spots with Red Mage but what it would do is guarantee that RDM's melee abilities will never be expanded upon. It would also be far stronger overall and steal players away from RDM who want a spellsword type class.

Ignoring the hyperbole of "guaranteeing" a lack of expansion to RDM's melee, since expanding any other melee (including NIN and SAM who are the closest we have to Spellblades now) has no bearing on RDM's own kit or balance:

I don't see the problem with that. Every GCD we spend performing melee skills is built by anywhere from 2-8 GCDs spent casting, yet there are more requests for new melee skills or Mana spenders than there are for ways to generate Mana quickly to shorten our casting time.
I don't see a need for a Magic Ranged DPS job with "Mage" in the name, with a spellcaster's stats and survivability, and a repertoire largely of spells, to spend more time locked into melee range or see much more expansion of its melee abilities, at least not before its spellcasting abilities so we can spend more time meleeing.
Give players who want to live the Spellblade fantasy the option to live that out, and leave RDM for players who prefer the mixed-caster fantasy of RDM. Let players play what they want to play, don't hold the Spellblades ransom to RDM.

Also worth mentioning, there is hardly any discussion of how Spellblade would even work, yet you're already declaring it would step on RDM's toes? Spellblade, Mystic Knight and Rune Fencer are different enough jobs from RDM that there are plenty of skills and abilities that could be given to them that have nothing to do with RDM. We have no job capable of casting En-spells, FF13 gave us a whole host of elemental strike skills, FF15 gave us Warp Strikes, and there are plenty of ways to expand on a melee job that don't involve giving them a Mana gauge.
We're no more the sole owners of sword magic than WHM is the owner of healing magic.

Paired up with the curse of verraise, RDM risks becoming essentially a dead job.

Funny. I was having a chat with a friend about that last night, and it was pointed out to me that the Verraise tax was hardly a consideration towards the end of Stormblood, and a large part of the discussion around the Verraise tax cropped up when Shadowbringers launch made clear that BLM was overpowered.

Have we had recent dev confirmation that RDM is so undertuned right now because of Verraise? 'Cuz our damage was just as bad at the start of Shadowbringers before our casting costs were adjusted when we could barely squeeze out 2 Verraises a fight, and we were still behind SMN in utility.
I'd wait for 5.1 before discussing if Verraise is still a 'curse', versus balance having a few oversights.

I'm in for most class ideas, really.

But if any job gets Ultima or Ultima-esque abilities before Black Mage does then I will RIOT.

Bold of you to assume anyone will get Ultima within the lifespan of 14.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I got my hopes with Lv.100, if not Lv.90, that BLM could get it. So yeah.

[odym82]

Everytime i read these threads hoping for genuine discussions and ideas fleshing out what someone has come up with and was brave enough to put out here for all of us to see. And everytime its just people shitting on even the notion of the idea because (insert something irrelevant here).
To the OP your idea is actually good and legitimate. Don’t let the “something something RDM” crowd get you down

[Atmaweapon510]

Since you're going with dual-wielding swords, you might as well go all the way with the FF5 references and name the Ultima Blade mode "Spellblade Barrage" and turn it into a machinist-esque heat mode with lower recast times to go with the OCD reset.

Being able to activate the mode before 100% is also essential. It's probably tempting to have a "super god mode" but that doesn't mesh well with party buffs and variable encounter designs that won't let you use it ASAP.