Why is RDM invisible right now? Where is the outrage?

[Zerathor]

start digging

second. still absurd. To even think rez mage would be above smn if anything else.

you didn't think i would.

You just want rez mage to be meta in speed runs, as well as prog, which idk why it would. And to make pure damage jobs worthless ontop of all that.

[Kabooa]

you didn't think i would..

Undertale front-manning determination forgot just how potent spite can be.

[Zyneste]

second. still absurd. To even think rez mage would be above smn if anything else.

you didn't think i would.

You just want rez mage to be meta in speed runs, as well as prog, which idk why it would. And to make pure damage jobs worthless ontop of all that.

I think you're misinterpreting what she was saying.

She wants RDM to bring second highest RDPS contribution behind dancer and tied with NIN. Changing up embolden to all damage would put us allot closer to that. Its the typical model for classes that deal low personal damage.

High PDPS > Hybrid PDPS > Low PDPS.
Low RDPS < Hybrid DPS < High RDPS.

Examples are:
MCH BRD DNC
WHM SCH AST
BLM SMN RDM

[Wayfinder3]

second. still absurd. To even think rez mage would be above smn if anything else.

you didn't think i would.

You just want rez mage to be meta in speed runs, as well as prog, which idk why it would. And to make pure damage jobs worthless ontop of all that.

That post places RDM DNC and NIN with the highest potential utility to contribute to raid dps however, the counter balance to this is that they are on the lower end of the Personal dps spectrum. This means, your desired balance would be to want 1 or 2 of them, but you need personal dps to truly reap the benefits of any of them. as the gap between the best and worst in pdps would be too big for the hyper utility to compensate.
i flat explained the way rdps contributing jobs and pdps contributing jobs would synergize under these new distinctions.

let me link it for you

[Wayfinder3]

The dynamics in XI were very different, though. And seeing how RDM was pigeonholed into healing and buffing, I don't see those things as anything to celebrate. I say that as someone who until about 2 weeks ago was playing FFXI. Where despite the recent buff to Composure that tripled (!) enspell damage, we're still getting shoehorned into healing because there's not enough WHMs around and old habits die hard (the fact RDM is several tiers behind everyone else in terms of melee gear doesn't help).

Also, RDM tanking pretty much died when they nerfed enmity coefficients on enfeebles. Best you can hope for now is get a +enmity set and sub PLD for Flash.
The trinity is not why BLU was turned into a side activity. That job came as it did because the "learn spells from mobs" thing was more important to the devs than anything else. BLU was never a tank, and healing was limited to White Wind or something akin to it. What made it stand out is that its spells were monster skills and some were unique as they had no equivalent with the other mages (in FFVI Strago was the only mage that could deal wind and water damage, for example). BLU could have easily been implemented as a DPS caster akin to Strago, while giving it a balanced kit of spells and do the "learn spells from mobs" thing. You wouldn't be able to learn every mob skill under the sun, but that's never been a detriment to BLU's existence.
As I want the idea of limited jobs to vanish and never return, I'm going to disagree here. Designing things for a trinity MMO may require some concessions. Hence why RDM being a DPS with utility is fine with me; the gameplay being spell spam 80% of the time is my main problem with it.

BLU isn’t a real job because of its spells, Level 5 petrify, final sting, missile, explosion, white wind, are all ridiculously broken spells to give a dps tank or healer at the same time. BLU currently has quest cap for the amount of spells they have during their leveling and putting that system on endgame content would be an easy way of fixing the (I want to learn through mobs) method of giving them skills. But skills like peculiar light, waxing moon and he above mentioned ones are so broken that there is no realistic way it could have them and be apart of the trinity. RDM in the other hand is apart of the trinity, it just has nothing to separate itself as a hybrid of anything.

[Katie_Kitty]

Well this thread has officially jumped the shark with the FFlogs circlejerking. Yikes.

[RadicalPesto]

"Red Mage is a learning and progression job that's not meant to farm or clear raids" is a meme people came up with to justify the class being terribly weak and in fact, has no basis in the game's actual systems, Red Mage is classed as a regular magical ranged DPS, not a Limited Job, and "progression-only job" doesn't exist for any other role no matter how easy or difficult a class might be.

"RDM is a jack of all trades so it should do awful damage" is also a meme. RDM is a DPS. Its purpose is to do DPS. RDM can't remotely replace a healer, so it should be balanced as a DPS.

[Sequora]

"Red Mage is a learning and progression job that's not meant to farm or clear raids" is a meme people came up with to justify the class being terribly weak and in fact, has no basis in the game's actual systems, Red Mage is classed as a regular magical ranged DPS, not a Limited Job, and "progression-only job" doesn't exist for any other role no matter how easy or difficult a class might be.

"RDM is a jack of all trades so it should do awful damage" is also a meme. RDM is a DPS. Its purpose is to do DPS. RDM can't remotely replace a healer, so it should be balanced as a DPS.

I’ve been saying I don’t know why people seem to think it’s ok for one role to have “progression jobs”. RDM was known for being the caster job you play to learn a fight, and then switch to SMN or BLM in SB. This has gotten exponentially worse in ShB. RDM and SMN have these heavy raise taxes.

No other role deals with this. The raise tax needs to be looked at. Give RDM more damage utility. Boost SMN potency. Give them the ranged treatment. BLM is pure DPS, SMN is damage with some utility, and then RDM is damage with high DPS utility.

[Katie_Kitty]

I’ve been saying I don’t know why people seem to think it’s ok for one role to have “progression jobs”. RDM was known for being the caster job you play to learn a fight, and then switch to SMN or BLM in SB. This has gotten exponentially worse in ShB. RDM and SMN have these heavy raise taxes.

No other role deals with this. The raise tax needs to be looked at. Give RDM more damage utility. Boost SMN potency. Give them the ranged treatment. BLM is pure DPS, SMN is damage with some utility, and then RDM is damage with high DPS utility.

There are so many different ways they could fix the balance, but my personal preference would be something like this: Give RDM actual healing tools so that they are capable of slotting in in place of one of the healers. Let's be honest, in everything but savage content, RDM's damage ability is perfectly fine for what is needed. It is in the high end content where it falls short simply because its competition is so much better. Similarly, you don't *really* need two dedicated healers.

Imagine if, instead, skilled Red Mages were taking a sort of "off-healer+DPS" role in raids with a strong "main" healer like a white mage by its side, while still doing the kind of DPS-like damage it currently does. Imagine RDMs popping medicas or aspected helios type skills with dualcast or using an oGCD big cure in between damage casts. Imagine replacing the 5-6k damage from a 2nd healer with a RDM who performs adequately enough to replace their heals while also dishing out 12k, maybe down to 11k rDPS depending on fight and skill level. Maybe that would make RDM too powerful, I dunno, but I sure think it would be fun. And I think that would make it a really true Red Mage as well.

[Kabooa]

There are so many different ways they could fix the balance, but my personal preference would be something like this: Give RDM actual healing tools so that they are capable of slotting in in place of one of the healers.

There's been a lot of bad ideas being thrown out, but this one probably takes the cake.