Why is RDM invisible right now? Where is the outrage?

[Razard]

snip

So anecdotes and a vid that I don't care to watch.

Ok hun this has been an adorable non sequitur, but it doesn't really help anything or really help what "afflicts" RDM in this game. And good job admitting that a lot of the complaints are "It isn't FFXI (insert pet job) so it sucks". New and original.

[Katie_Kitty]

In summation, the problem with RDM is the Trinity?

That's the excuse, not necessarily the problem. People either don't have the guts or the creativity to make it work.

[Archwizard]

The thing with raise is that just having it will incur a tax. It doesn't matter if you get penalized for using it. Just being able to raise is the issue, having it in your back pocket. Being able to raise a dead healer, when a BLM cannot is what causes BLM to get that boosted rebate DPS. "You don't have a raise of any form so here take extra damage for your troubles."

Sure, and I have no expectation RDM would be equal in DPS potential to BLM in such a case -- granting that that would already be true regardless so long as RDM has Embolden and BLM has minimal utility potential.

And on the other hand, even with the ability to Mana Shift to a healer to give them a free and instant rez, RDM's utility would still be of higher value in that department than BLM purely because it isn't reliant on meeting halfway and having someone else finish the job for you; if all the healers are dead, Mana Shift means nothing. If RDM's recovery potential was drastically reduced without being removed on the other hand, not only would the rezbot meme die off but its value would diminish, thereby creating space for other, more frequent but weaker utilities to fill the space.

[Jkap_Goat]

So anecdotes and a vid that I don't care to watch.

Ok hun this has been an adorable non sequitur, but it doesn't really help anything or really help what "afflicts" RDM in this game. And good job admitting that a lot of the complaints are "It isn't FFXI (insert pet job) so it sucks". New and original.

What? Your saying that FFXI is a Refresh Not while it's not like that in current FFXI so it seemed like you needed an update.

FFXI red mage is what a red mage should be I think, FFXIV red mage should also use enfeebling spells

Well to be fair, FFXIV battle is a shallow pond of water, there is no depth, just DPS, and that's someone whose been playing the game since 2.0

[Jkap_Goat]

If FFXIV had a Support Role, Red mage, Bard, Dancer,Summoner would fit right in

[Auryan]

What? Your saying that FFXI is a Refresh Not while it's not like that in current FFXI so it seemed like you needed an update.

FFXI red mage is what a red mage should be I think, FFXIV red mage should also use enfeebling spells

Well to be fair, FFXIV battle is a shallow pond of water, there is no depth, just DPS, and that's someone whose been playing the game since 2.0

He's probably speaking from someone who played during XI's lvl 75 heyday, as oppose to what it is now. And as someone who also played XI I think he exaggerates, but I don't think he's wrong in how he addresses the way XI handled RDM and the other jobs.
And not to be rude or anything, but you pretty much proved his point in that you let your experience from XI cloud the way you see other iterations of the jobs in other games. It almost feels like you'd much rather go play XI's version of the jobs than XIV. Which is fine, but you shouldn't expect XIV to take direct notes from XI. That's just unrealistic.

[Jkap_Goat]

He's probably speaking from someone who played during XI's lvl 75 heyday, as oppose to what it is now. And as someone who also played XI I think he exaggerates, but I don't think he's wrong in how he addresses the way XI handled RDM and the other jobs.
And not to be rude or anything, but you pretty much proved his point in that you let your experience from XI cloud the way you see other iterations of the jobs in other games. It almost feels like you'd much rather go play XI's version of the jobs than XIV. Which is fine, but you shouldn't expect XIV to take direct notes from XI. That's just unrealistic.

I started ffxi last year and I was blown away how much depth the battle system and jobs are from FFXIV.

So I didn't let XI cloud my judgement nor am I speaking from nostalgia

[Auryan]

I started ffxi last year and I was blown away how much depth the battle system and jobs are from FFXIV.

So I didn't let XI cloud my judgement nor am I speaking from nostalgia

I didn't say your bias comes from a place of nostalgia. It could very well be a recency bias type of deal. Regardless, you suggested XIV's RDM should be more like XI's RDM's, because...why? Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't mind seeing some supportive abilities for RDM, but I take an issue of just lifting things from XI. Seeing XIV's get Slow, Paralyze and some en-spells would just be lame.

And it's nice to see someone play XI. I played XI around mid 2000s to about 2010. My first MMO actually. I look back on it fondly, but I'm very critical of what I remember. It was/is an amazing, but deeply flawed game. And what it could get away with, wouldn't work for XIV. And vice-versa.

[Seku]

If we went with FFXI RDM we should give it refresh and let it sit in the back as a healer since that's how most people used it in 11 and since the sub job system isn't in place to allow for it to do other things. In all seriousness though, this was bound to happen and the job probably will get boosted in DPS here soon. Probably some potency buffs. As for wanting something super creative thought with jobs and a more in depth system? You're probably not going to get that. Outside of Savage raids, FF14 doesn't take much thought to get through most of it's content. And if this were like 11, the job balance would be way worse. At least 14 doesn't let a job sit far behind the rest for several years.

[Razard]

If FFXIV had a Support Role, Red mage, Bard, Dancer,Summoner would fit right in

Oh yes I remember Summoner being a "Support" class in FFXI. Do you know how many of my own spells I used for leveling in groups?

None.

Also Thanks for proving my point. This has been a nice little aside, but unless you want to address my actual point in my original post, which was how does any of this help RDM in THIS game, good day. By the way XIV isn't "shallow" It just doesn't have arbitrary rip currents that suck you underwater.